Reef Discussion

[macca_75]

Given you have already done the research, can you give a snapshot of the symptons and causes of pinched mantle??

Symptoms are basically how the mantle apears in the first photo - like it wants to extend but can't. In general just looks really sick.

From what I read you have about 2 weeks until the Clam expires. Not sure how far into the 2 weeks you can go and still be successful in treatment as I would imagine a 30min bath in RO (straight from Saltwater without aclimitisation) must be a shock - healthy clams can handle it in the wild but I guess this isn't healthy at the moment.

Here's a pic after I put it back in the tank - youcan see how tight it has closed (which in my mind is a good thing - it's still reactiting to stimulus)

View attachment awww.imagerocket.net_photos_1349862843_after_1st_bath.JPG

Also, as another observation I found 4 (large) mysis, about 10 bristleworms, a small snail and a few other types of worm in the RO once I pulled the clam out. All dead (I suspect as a result of the extended RO dip). Not sure if these where inside the clam or just on the outer shell.

I've also slightly repositioned to try and give it the best chance of re-attaching it's foot.

 

[macca_75]

Oh - and the foot looked healthy (from an uneducated guess). Nothing rotting, didn't smell bad, etc.

 

[macca_75]

Symptoms are pretty much as the name suggests, the mantle retracts into the shell and you will see exposed areas of shell that would normally be covered by the mantle. You can see this fairly clearly at the front edge of the "before RO dip" photo.

Causes are many, the name relates to a symptom rather than a cause. Anything from bacterial infection or macro-parasites to water quality and starvation can cause this problem. Given the rapid nature of this one, water quality and starvation are highly unlikely, the other 2 should be affected by the FW dip.

Always worth checking for pyramid snails when there are problems, especially if the clam can be taken out of water.

With regard to the mantle detaching from rock, this may be a symptom of size/age rather than anything negative. As they grow larger, clams will detach and may drop their byssus, relying on their weight and potentially any boring they have done, to hold themselves in place.

Beat me and explained it better than me :worship

 

[chimaera]

If you haven't already read this resource, check it out: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=303365

From what I have read you're taking the right steps. It sounds like the exact cause of PM is often unknown but it can have devastating effects, wiping out whole tanks.

Good luck with it and keep the updates coming.

 

[macca_75]

Checked on the clam before I went to work this morning. (around 5:30am)

No surprises. The mantle was well within the shell and the shell shut pretty tight.

I did notice a LOT of little pods in and around the clam, however the same is true for the tank in general. I mention this as I guess it's a good sign it didn't die overnight as I suspect nothing would go near rotting flesh other than possibly the CUC, which I didn't notice.:)

I also happen to have an ORP monitor and the moment on loan from Rob - not major drop or spike. My understanding is if something like the clam did die and begin to rot I would see an ORP shift. (the drop is from when I had the return pump off while I gave the clam a bath and the probe was exposed to air)

Fingers still crossed.

 

[leodb89]

i love lamp

 

[macca_75]

i love lamp

errrr - OK. What lamp?

 

[leodb89]

 

[macca_75]

Just for the sake of record keeping, here is a pic taken tonight. Doesn't look much different from when I put it back in last night.

Hope it survived the dip OK. I did use RO, however after doing more reading tonight that may not have been the best option - need to get some RODI - might even buy some Distilled water tomorrow at the shop.

Basically what I read points to a thoery that iron may actually contribute to the issue, hence the need for DI (de-ionised) water and not straight RO.

Anyway - fingers are still crossed.

 

[Rob]

maybe it never really survived the tank move, although sounds like the foot is still OK, maybe it never really attached again after the moved. OH did I tell you I fed my tank every second day Phyton and Zoo :eek .

 

[macca_75]

maybe it never really survived the tank move, although sounds like the foot is still OK, maybe it never really attached again after the moved. OH did I tell you I fed my tank every second day Phyton and Zoo :eek .

Yeap - you certainly did.

From what I've read (before getting the clam and since) the food isn't vital - although it's probably never going to hurt.

Also the onset of this issue was really quick, not like a slow starvation and it's been in there for a while. Regardless if this clam survives or not maybe I do need to start a feeding regime like yourself to one day try and aspire to have a tank that look s 1/2 as good as yours :worship

Chat when you get back more about what you feed and when - I know you does about 600 bottles of food and your corals seem to love you for it. Maybe thats the next key bit I need. Since I seem to no longer need Rowa I should be able to use those funds for food :)

Chat soon

 

[Ian G]

Don't keep clams myself (yet) but I have read that bristle worms will attack clam mantles and that one way to deal with this is using an aquaknead type product to fit around the mantle then secure the product where you want the clam. Probably need to read up on it a bit more before trying but then if the clam is expiring.....

BTW Current thinking is that there should always be 0.04ppm phosphate for clams & corals including sps.

 

[firechild]

From what I've read (before getting the clam and since) the food isn't vital - although it's probably never going to hurt.

Correct. It's actually not uncommon for a clam to drop its byssus when stressed but another will grow in its place. The only thing is if it is removed by force, there may be damage to the tissue that is connected to the byssus and that can be (and often is) fatal. This is why removing clams from rocks can be somewhat of a delicate operation, though certainly doable.

 

[firechild]

Don't keep clams myself (yet) but I have read that bristle worms will attack clam mantles and that one way to deal with this is using an aquaknead type product to fit around the mantle then secure the product where you want the clam. Probably need to read up on it a bit more before trying but then if the clam is expiring....

Similar has been written in different places but it's actually a terrible idea. Not allowing the clam to move of its own accord can cause major stress and is potentially fatal. Bristle worms generally only feed on dead or dying tissue of clams, the exceptions being some of the fire worms found in the Caribbean (oddly enough, an area where Tridacnids are not naturally found. I used to have dozens of britle worms under each of my clams and never had an issue with them. Bristleworms being problematic is largely a myth perpetuated by the fact that they are opportunistic and will feed on dead or dying clams and people commonly and incorrectly place the blame on them for the death.

 

[macca_75]

Similar has been written in different places but it's actually a terrible idea. Not allowing the clam to move of its own accord can cause major stress and is potentially fatal. Bristle worms generally only feed on dead or dying tissue of clams, the exceptions being some of the fire worms found in the Caribbean (oddly enough, an area where Tridacnids are not naturally found. I used to have dozens of britle worms under each of my clams and never had an issue with them. Bristleworms being problematic is largely a myth perpetuated by the fact that they are opportunistic and will feed on dead or dying clams and people commonly and incorrectly place the blame on them for the death.

I was just about to ask for a reference online to the Bristleworm coment.

I did notice several of them under the clam, but as the foot looked undamaged didn't activley do anything about them. If your experience has been to the contrary I will leave them for now - as few little changes as possible will lead to the best chance for the clam I hope.

Happy to make any changes with documented evidence it is benifical.

Ian -> do you have a link to the bristleworm article handy? Can never read to much...

Cheers

 

[Ian G]

Actually I originally read it on a tube of aquaknead or some other reef putty (take that with a grain of salt) but it got me curious and I just googled it at the time.

 

[macca_75]

Sad news for me guys. Arrived home tonight hopi g to see an improvement. Tangs were having a feed and the mantle had definitely withdrawn even more.

Decide to get it out before it started breaking down to much. Man is stank like dog shit! I guess the silver lining on the cloud is about 4 gazillion worms were having a feast at the time and came out cleanly with the rock.

If anyone wants a decorative clam shell it's on the front porch in a bucket - you'll need to remove the meat (guessing acid/vinegar dip. Leave it out for the ants, millions of labour free ways to do it.

Oh - and this was front and centre of the tank I need to start thinking about a replacement coral.

R.I.P clam

 

[chimaera]

That blows mate. At least you had a fair crack at curing it ... not much else you could have done.

 

[Sarg]

No good mate :(

 

[Meller]

Sorry to hear, but big kudos to you for the effort you went to to try and nurse her back to health.

Hope you get another clam and have better luck with it ;)