Reef Discussion

[macca_75]

Hey guys,

Came home yesterday and noticed my clam didn't look so crash hot so I thought I would give it a day (in case it had ann off day)

Anyway, looked much the same tonight.

I've done a water change - about 20% - to see if that spruks it up a little.

It's still reactive (shuts up when annoyed) so at least it's still alive.

Can't think of any major changes I;ve made recently - I did stop using Rowa however my last test was still coming up as 0.00.

I'll do a full test again tomorrow and make sure nothing is way out.

Could just be as the clam is a recent addition (< 3 months) it's actually an early indactor of poor water quality - the next fwe days will be telling....

Holding my breath for a full recovery.

 

[macca_75]

PS. Used the temaplte - like the way it display's thereefuge ;)

 

[Meller]

Im sure you know these macca, but it Looks hungry? What are you feeding?

And GAC is your friend in these situations!

 

[macca_75]

Im sure you know these macca, but it Looks hungry? What are you feeding?

And GAC is your friend in these situations!

Going to look a little sheepish here, but I didn't think you had to target feed them so I haven't been feeding anything specific.

What do you recommend?

Also, if the PO4 is at 0.00, and the clam is (from what I've read) able to pull PO4 out of the water, shouldn't I be aiming for some PO4 rather than trying to pull it all out?

Do you think I need the carbon:
1) All the time?
or
2) To try and soak up any nasties currently in the tank that may be causing this?

I'll double check with Rob who I got the clam from, but I don't think he target fed it when he had it, although he does feed several coral "suppliments" to the tank.

Sorry for the mess of questions, but I really want to try and save this one and not lose stock.... The tank is coming together and a loss will be very dissapointing, not to mention I hate the thought of killing something out of my neglect.

 

[firechild]

In absence of phytoplankton, there are 2 somewhat more readily available food sources. Yeast and blood. The latter probably isn't too feasable unless you feel like slicing your finger open but I've had success using powdered yeast in the past. It is important that clams have some food source since they don't as many nutrients from their symbionts as some photosynthetic corals. Clam farms dose ammonium nitrate but in a mixed reef this is probably not an ideal solution.

 

[Synodontis]

We have had a clam in the tank for around 6 months now & have never target feed him. We do dose the tank every second night with Brightwell supplements tho. I have read that a lot of people with SPS/clam tanks found they get more colour with PO4 around the 0.03 mark. If you have stopped the Rowa & still getting 0 readings, is your kit OK?

 

[macca_75]

We have had a clam in the tank for around 6 months now & have never target feed him. We do dose the tank every second night with Brightwell supplements tho. I have read that a lot of people with SPS/clam tanks found they get more colour with PO4 around the 0.03 mark. If you have stopped the Rowa & still getting 0 readings, is your kit OK?

kit (Hanna) is fine as I get a reading against tap water.

Everything I read before getting the clam said good water quality and light was all that was needed.

What products specifically do you dose that may/might be of benefit?

 

[macca_75]

In absence of phytoplankton, there are 2 somewhat more readily available food sources. Yeast and blood. The latter probably isn't too feasable unless you feel like slicing your finger open but I've had success using powdered yeast in the past. It is important that clams have some food source since they don't as many nutrients from their symbionts as some photosynthetic corals. Clam farms dose ammonium nitrate but in a mixed reef this is probably not an ideal solution.

doesn't a small pool of blood come at the bottom of every meat tray? Must admit never heard of that but it certainly doesn't make it true - might have to see if google is my friend in the morning.

Thanks for the replies

 

[malau]

What kind of lighting you use? LED or T5..etc? I heard that clam takes ammonia, no2, no3, po4.. will that be a chance lack of these? Also do you have any algae in your tank still alive? If not I think maybe lack of PO4?

 

[firechild]

doesn't a small pool of blood come at the bottom of every meat tray? Must admit never heard of that but it certainly doesn't make it true - might have to see if google is my friend in the morning.

Thanks for the replies

I'd be concerned with contamination from a meat tray and this is one of the issues mentioned by Daniel Knop when discussing the use of blood. Yeast is great because it is cheap, readily available, stores long term and is easy to use. Just a few granules added to a container of water and shaken well will be sufficient a couple of times a week.

 

[macca_75]

I'd be concerned with contamination from a meat tray and this is one of the issues mentioned by Daniel Knop when discussing the use of blood. Yeast is great because it is cheap, readily available, stores long term and is easy to use. Just a few granules added to a container of water and shaken well will be sufficient a couple of times a week.

That looks to easy. Yeast I already have (wife bakes bread occasionally).

Any references or links online so I can do a bit of reading?

Cheers

 

[macca_75]

What kind of lighting you use? LED or T5..etc? I heard that clam takes ammonia, no2, no3, po4.. will that be a chance lack of these? Also do you have any algae in your tank still alive? If not I think maybe lack of PO4?

MH lighting. The clam has been fine for a while now and seems to have taken a turn overnight (2 days ago) - not a slow decline into death. Makes me suspect more of a change somewhere than a long term health issue.

 

[Joshwaaaa]

hrmmm dont know how my clam is survivng then, I dont feed anything other then brine shrimp, mysis etc for my fish. And keep my po4 as low as possible 0.0 on the hanna.

I got my clam at under 1" in size, it's now around 2.5" and the colors are amazing probably better then when I got it. Been in my tank about 6 months

 

[malau]

MH lighting. The clam has been fine for a while now and seems to have taken a turn overnight (2 days ago) - not a slow decline into death. Makes me suspect more of a change somewhere than a long term health issue.

How long since you use the current bulb? I guess you may need to change the bulb now?

 

[macca_75]

In my experience, an aging bulb won't cause livestock issues overnight, it would be a slow decline.

Besides which all other corals seem to be doing OK.

 

[Joshwaaaa]

just read this and made me think of this thread, pinched mantle disease?

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/aqu...disease-id-treatment-options.html#post1089315

 

[Meller]

As per Aaron's suggestions, clams need some nutrition, and in a tank getting fed normally, some planktonic excess and with trace nutrients no 'target' feeding is usually required. But in so called ULNS sometimes additional supplementation is required.... Hence in Zeo tanks one of the first additional supplements used is sponge power.

I run carbon passively constantly, as a method of absorbing DOC's and keeping the water clear to optimize photosaturation. It also removes any toxins that may be problematic, so a double win! Also carbon is especially helpful in cases of pinched mantle...

HTH

 

[macca_75]

OK, Having been convenience by the collective Reefuge “Clam Brain Trust” I am happy to have this diagnosed as pinched mantle.

From what I was able to find on the internet, left untreated this is almost 100% fatal to the clam. That’s the bad news.

The good news is it seems there is a fairly successful and easy treatment - It’s simply a freshwater dip.

So as a record of Failure or success here begins the log.

The before shot – taken moments before I removed the clam from the tank for it’s first bath.
View attachment awww.imagerocket.net_photos_1349860909_Clam_Before.JPG

To prepare the bath I used 1.8 litres of RO water (the amount seemed to fit the container)

As best I can tell this had a pH of 7.4 (that’s as low as the API kit went). I ended up adding 4 teaspoons of Baking Soda and got the pH to something around 8.4 (remembering I am color blind and there was no other adult around to do the test for me) – close as I could get it to the tank pH.

I thought having stored the water in the fish tank room (which is around 26 degrees anyway) the water would have been around 26 – here’s the next lesson. The water is stored on the floor level, the temp probe is up high. There is a 12 degree difference between high and low in the room (as heat rises and the bulk of the heat comes off the MH lights, which sit under s shelf which has the temp probe sitting on it).

1 min 20 secs in the microwave had the tub of water to within .2 degrees of the tank (using the same probe).

Drop the clam in with a bit of a swish around to ensure the fresh water gets well and truely into it.

View attachment awww.imagerocket.net_photos_1349860908_1st_bath.JPG

Every 10 mins I gave the clam a quick swish around and checked the temp.

30 mins later I’ll drop it back into the tank where it was.

Some observations:
1) Underneath the clam when I lifted it out was full of bristle/fire worms. I might need to start trapping some of these out I think
2) The foot wasn’t attached to the rock, whereas I believe (by sight only) it has been previously – not a great sign I’d imagine.
3) A good sign – it reacted to my touch when I grabbed it out and tightened even further in the RO – at least it was still alive and has a chance.​

Going to be a nervous few days ahead before it’s next bath on Sat.

 

[MagicJ]

Given you have already done the research, can you give a snapshot of the symptons and causes of pinched mantle??

 

[firechild]

Symptoms are pretty much as the name suggests, the mantle retracts into the shell and you will see exposed areas of shell that would normally be covered by the mantle. You can see this fairly clearly at the front edge of the "before RO dip" photo.

Causes are many, the name relates to a symptom rather than a cause. Anything from bacterial infection or macro-parasites to water quality and starvation can cause this problem. Given the rapid nature of this one, water quality and starvation are highly unlikely, the other 2 should be affected by the FW dip.

Always worth checking for pyramid snails when there are problems, especially if the clam can be taken out of water.

With regard to the mantle detaching from rock, this may be a symptom of size/age rather than anything negative. As they grow larger, clams will detach and may drop their byssus, relying on their weight and potentially any boring they have done, to hold themselves in place.