Reef Discussion

[Lesley]

Ok, so since replacing our return pump a week ago everything has been fine. expect water level in tank is a little higher than we would have liked.

How ever last night about every 10-15 mins for no reason the weir level drops about 10cm below the Bean Animal drains, gurggles , restarts siphon and raises again.
We have changed nothing over the week, it has never done this before,
What could possible make the weir level drop and rise so drastically on its own ??

Please any suggestions would be great as the noise is soooooo annoying, and the fact its happening is even more annoying.

Thanks.

 

[RobbieMVFC]

I would suspect the return pump not providing a consistent pressure.

 

[Lesley]

I would suspect the return pump not providing a consistent pressure.

Really. It's only a week old ? Dam this is a shitty hobby sometimes. If it's not one thing it's another. !!!! How do we test that then ? Wouldnt the level in the sump rise as well then ?

 

[Sam Parker]

There is a little more to the story that may help others identify the issue. :)

The return pump is larger, plus a very restrictive check valve from the return line has been removed. So there is considerable more flow going from sump to DT to weir to sump.

Has steve had to file the weir comb yet? The tank level was getting too high as the extra flow from the pump was overwhelming the weir comb and not flowing into the weir fast enough.

I suspect that the drain setup is not tuned to cope with the extra flow (or has been opened up too far and is coping too well with extra flow) and is gurgling as takes air.

If your home and can watch the tank like a hawk, try closing up the taps a little on the drain lines to see if that steadies it.

 

[gtrxu1]

Sounds like an adjustment needs to be made to the drain's ball valve.

Sounds like a problem I have when there is a little too much water going down the 'trickle' pipe.

Try backing off the ball valve a fraction, this will make it rise up the weir at a slower rate, then make sure you only have a slight trickle in the secondary drain.

 

[MagicJ]

Without actually seeing what is happening anything I suggest is going to include some guesswork -

• the fact that the level in the tank has risen suggests that the new pump is moving more water than the old one
• this might mean that the pipes back to the sump cannot handle the extra water
• if you have a secondary drain with a durso, this might be getting full of water and turning into a full syphon which will regularly suck the water out of the weir until the water level reached past the bottom of the durso.

Solutions - open the valve on the full syphon - you want about 95% of the water to go down this pipe. Can you reduce the flow of the return pump? Increase the amount of air going into the durso? If any of these sound confusing let me know :)

Edit - others responded before I finished :rolleyes

 

[Sam Parker]

no wonder your an accountant @MagicJ - your always on the money mate!

 

[macca_75]

beat me to it @MagicJ - I think @Sam Parker also got the same conclusion in a less elegant way

 

[Sam Parker]

Less elegant?!

 

[Lesley]

Without actually seeing what is happening anything I suggest is going to include some guesswork -

• the fact that the level in the tank has risen suggests that the new pump is moving more water than the old one
• this might mean that the pipes back to the sump cannot handle the extra water
• if you have a secondary drain with a durso, this might be getting full of water and turning into a full syphon which will regularly suck the water out of the weir until the water level reached past the bottom of the durso.

Solutions - open the valve on the full syphon - you want about 95% of the water to go down this pipe. Can you reduce the flow of the return pump? Increase the amount of air going into the durso? If any of these sound confusing let me know :)

Edit - others responded before I finished :rolleyes

Thanks.
Been on phone with @Sam Parker
Once again he saves the day.
It appears that the airline on the secondary trickle pipe was insufficient to deal with extra water.
So we have now removed the cap with airline completely and this seems to have solved the problem.
We are now going to slow the return pump by running the reactors and Debary off the line and hopefully be able to put airline cap back one.
@MagicJ - Unfortunately at the moment we don't have any play left with the ball valve on the main drain, it is all the way open taking about 85% with the secondary taking the other 15%, not ideal.
When we T-off the return to run the other things, will this change for us to have some adjustment available again ?

 

[Lesley]

There is a little more to the story that may help others identify the issue. :)

The return pump is larger, plus a very restrictive check valve from the return line has been removed. So there is considerable more flow going from sump to DT to weir to sump.

Has steve had to file the weir comb yet? The tank level was getting too high as the extra flow from the pump was overwhelming the weir comb and not flowing into the weir fast enough.

I suspect that the drain setup is not tuned to cope with the extra flow (or has been opened up too far and is coping too well with extra flow) and is gurgling as takes air.

If your home and can watch the tank like a hawk, try closing up the taps a little on the drain lines to see if that steadies it.

Thanks @Sam Parker
We have had to remove the weir comb at this stage, to stop the water lapping over the euro bracing.
Its was a poor design with the weir def being to high right from the start.
We will see what happens with this tank :) before we go to the trouble of filing down an extra 5-8mm.

 

[Lesley]

@potatocouch
I think this is an amazing example of how quickly and efficiently this site and great people work.
This wasn't a huge emergency, just a little one and was fixed and answered within mins of posting.
If in doubt or trouble, use The Reefuge.
You wont go wrong.
Thanks everyone.

 

[MagicJ]

Its was a poor design with the weir def being to high right from the start.
We will see what happens with this tank :) before we go to the trouble of filing down an extra 5-8mm.

http://thereefuge.com/threads/well-think-we-are-ready.11934/#post-152713 ;)

 

[Sam Parker]

http://thereefuge.com/threads/well-think-we-are-ready.11934/#post-152713 ;)

Ouch - a told you so this early in the morning :P

 

[Sam Parker]

Thanks.
Been on phone with @Sam Parker
Once again he saves the day.
It appears that the airline on the secondary trickle pipe was insufficient to deal with extra water.
So we have now removed the cap with airline completely and this seems to have solved the problem.
We are now going to slow the return pump by running the reactors and Debary off the line and hopefully be able to put airline cap back one.
@MagicJ - Unfortunately at the moment we don't have any play left with the ball valve on the main drain, it is all the way open taking about 85% with the secondary taking the other 15%, not ideal.
When we T-off the return to run the other things, will this change for us to have some adjustment available again ?

Yep - when you T off the return you will be reducing the amount of flow going back to the display tank and therefore the amount flowing through the drain pipes. This should give you a little bit of tune-ability back in those taps and hopefully allow you to put your weir comb back on.

 

[potatocouch]

We need more consulting people that willing to travel on-site .. you guys would make big $$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Buddy]

Wow this got solved before I could even give my 2 cents :eek
When I upgraded my return pump, the water level in my tank got higher. I just snapped about 10 pieces off the comb and that was enough to let the water through and lower it in the tank.

I could have made a bleed off in the sump but cbf :)

 

[Lesley]

http://thereefuge.com/threads/well-think-we-are-ready.11934/#post-152713 ;)

yup, you were right now and right back then. We have been happy with tank level up until last week when we changed the return pump flow.
So now right back to were we started.
We didn't work into the equation when setting up that we may need a lager return :(
Stupid newbie mistake. Thank for the reminder @MagicJ :)

 

[Lesley]

Wow this got solved before I could even give my 2 cents :eek
When I upgraded my return pump, the water level in my tank got higher. I just snapped about 10 pieces off the comb and that was enough to let the water through and lower it in the tank.

I could have made a bleed off in the sump but cbf :)

My hubby snapped every second comb off, and we still had to remove it.

 

[MagicJ]

Ouch - a told you so this early in the morning :p

Sorry @Lesley but I didn't mean that to come across as a 'told you so' post.

I started typing a response explaining that I had exactly the same issue with the weir too high - I was due to go into a meeting and remembered that I had already outlined my situation previously - I found the earlier post and pasted the link.

In hindsight, it was probably not the most appropriate thing I could have done.