Tank Journal Archive
Macca,
valid... for the closed loop, I do not see we will have problems with head pressure, so it comes down to what sort of system to adopt for the circulation... via the concept duck bills from the left/right bars, or via oceans motion valves under the tank, split into separate 20mm pipes punched through the tank floor ??
Alternately, if we look at the option of a series of MP 40/60 heads, how to set it up to avoid the wires and exposed heads on the glass viewing panels???
Is'nt this fun.... @#$%$$%#
Jac
valid... for the closed loop, I do not see we will have problems with head pressure, so it comes down to what sort of system to adopt for the circulation... via the concept duck bills from the left/right bars, or via oceans motion valves under the tank, split into separate 20mm pipes punched through the tank floor ??
Alternately, if we look at the option of a series of MP 40/60 heads, how to set it up to avoid the wires and exposed heads on the glass viewing panels???
Is'nt this fun.... @#$%$$%#
Jac
Given the depth of the tank I would look at having closed loop through the base to give you some low currents and then supplement with a power head of some description, be it an MP, maxspect gyre or a tunze up top for your gas exchange.
The ideal spot for closed loop is through the bottom because it can be hidden by rocks ect.
I know these tanks are old but have a look over some of these TJ's, they are what sticks in my mind when I think of closed loop performing well in a tank.
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=194986&start=60
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=213274
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=239401
Which reminds me, perhaps have a look at adding a solar tube or four into your lighting mix!
The ideal spot for closed loop is through the bottom because it can be hidden by rocks ect.
I know these tanks are old but have a look over some of these TJ's, they are what sticks in my mind when I think of closed loop performing well in a tank.
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=194986&start=60
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=213274
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=239401
Which reminds me, perhaps have a look at adding a solar tube or four into your lighting mix!
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Hi Guys,
thanks a lot... I got hooked, and spent nearly 3 hours on those sites !!! nice set ups, and a lot to digest.
NiCd the second link you sent, used 4 smaller pumps under the tank, with 20mm pipes punched through the tank floor, all controlled with a Proflex (?) looks great. As I read on, once built and running, he did have a big noise problem. I am wondering if I should go that route, but instead of 4 smaller pumps, use 2 slightly bigger pumps, half the noise (?) and if I use the right pumps, maybe silent enough, considering they would be in the stand below.
I am sure, with a bit more discussion, research and testing, we can resolve the issue of the pump to use for the main tank/sump cycles, but its the Closed Loop that needs to be decided..proceed with a big pump in the basement, then back to the tank and diverted / controlled through actuator... OR pump located below the tank, in the stand, and either control the flows through the Apex or oceans Motions units ?? That is two different concepts, each with their pro's and con's and issues to review and resolve.
I will be meeting up0 with Ash later, and we will try to debate it through.
Thanks again guys for your inputs.
Jac
thanks a lot... I got hooked, and spent nearly 3 hours on those sites !!! nice set ups, and a lot to digest.
NiCd the second link you sent, used 4 smaller pumps under the tank, with 20mm pipes punched through the tank floor, all controlled with a Proflex (?) looks great. As I read on, once built and running, he did have a big noise problem. I am wondering if I should go that route, but instead of 4 smaller pumps, use 2 slightly bigger pumps, half the noise (?) and if I use the right pumps, maybe silent enough, considering they would be in the stand below.
I am sure, with a bit more discussion, research and testing, we can resolve the issue of the pump to use for the main tank/sump cycles, but its the Closed Loop that needs to be decided..proceed with a big pump in the basement, then back to the tank and diverted / controlled through actuator... OR pump located below the tank, in the stand, and either control the flows through the Apex or oceans Motions units ?? That is two different concepts, each with their pro's and con's and issues to review and resolve.
I will be meeting up0 with Ash later, and we will try to debate it through.
Thanks again guys for your inputs.
Jac
As you can probably tell Michael was a perfectionist, he is a jeweler by trade and looks at everything with the most exacting detail.
When I was there I could never hear any noise but that was during the day with background noise, at night when you are trying to relax and everything is dead quiet except a buzzing I am sure it would drive you nuts.
The pumps he used is more akin to what Ash is suggesting, they are big power hungry monsters that have no issues with head height but come at the compromise of a few other things.
The actuator idea is cool but it is something that will fail, my recommendation is to KISS as much as possible, I would even be hesitant on the motion oceans and would much prefer to have more pumps on separate lines in pulse mode. The ocean motions may have improved but I found they do get stuck and also do make a knocking noise when they do work right.
If you install it underneath you don't have to worry about the head height only the friction loss so you can go a lot better-designed pump, that makes a lot less noise, will be more efficient, have a smaller footprint and have to work nowhere near as hard.
I went through a massive sound minimising mission on my tank, brought sound meters and brought, tested and returned a few products to achieve what I did.
Doubling the sound input does not double the noise level it only increases it by 3db.
What you have to weight up is if running double the pumps at 50% of their capacity is 3db less noisy than running half at 100%.
There are a bunch of cool controllable DC pumps you can look at now, I think the two best are the ones already suggested but also have a look at;
Aquabee UP8000 v24
Deltec Eflow
Royal Exlusiv RD3 Speedy 80w
Vertex V6
When I was there I could never hear any noise but that was during the day with background noise, at night when you are trying to relax and everything is dead quiet except a buzzing I am sure it would drive you nuts.
The pumps he used is more akin to what Ash is suggesting, they are big power hungry monsters that have no issues with head height but come at the compromise of a few other things.
The actuator idea is cool but it is something that will fail, my recommendation is to KISS as much as possible, I would even be hesitant on the motion oceans and would much prefer to have more pumps on separate lines in pulse mode. The ocean motions may have improved but I found they do get stuck and also do make a knocking noise when they do work right.
If you install it underneath you don't have to worry about the head height only the friction loss so you can go a lot better-designed pump, that makes a lot less noise, will be more efficient, have a smaller footprint and have to work nowhere near as hard.
I went through a massive sound minimising mission on my tank, brought sound meters and brought, tested and returned a few products to achieve what I did.
Doubling the sound input does not double the noise level it only increases it by 3db.
What you have to weight up is if running double the pumps at 50% of their capacity is 3db less noisy than running half at 100%.
There are a bunch of cool controllable DC pumps you can look at now, I think the two best are the ones already suggested but also have a look at;
Aquabee UP8000 v24
Deltec Eflow
Royal Exlusiv RD3 Speedy 80w
Vertex V6
I think at a later date he put rubber mounts under the pumps rather than bolting it directly to the stand and also had a few inches of flexible line added which reduced it a lot.
I'd agree completely with running multiple pumps on separate lines with some random modes would be much much nicer, less complex and therefore less prone to failure.
Of the pumps you listed, I'm not sure if any have actual "random" or varying modes though. They are controllable, but don't have any random modes as far as I know. Could be wrong though!
I reckon 4 ecotech M1's would go a treat. Tank that size you could run four M1's. Have a seperate intake and outlet for each pump positioned strategically around the base for ultimate flow control. Probably add a maxspect gyre at the surface for some surface disruption also
http://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra/vectra-m1
Of the pumps you listed, I'm not sure if any have actual "random" or varying modes though. They are controllable, but don't have any random modes as far as I know. Could be wrong though!
I reckon 4 ecotech M1's would go a treat. Tank that size you could run four M1's. Have a seperate intake and outlet for each pump positioned strategically around the base for ultimate flow control. Probably add a maxspect gyre at the surface for some surface disruption also
http://ecotechmarine.com/products/vectra/vectra-m1
FWIW the Vectra is not controllable with the apex. Other than that PITA I think my M1 is great
Only thing I miss with mine is triggering the Vectra feed mode from the apex, but thought it was worth mentioning... It's certainly not clear from the ecotech marketing
Fair call - but would prefer to not use the outlet and be able to make use of the feed mode on a Vectra. Hypothetically, if I was running a closed loop and could control it with apex, I would probably run different flow modes through the day, much like the MPx wave makers.
Anyway, not saying that it's a bad pump, but lack of apex control is a factor to consider.
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