Reef Discussion
50 is pretty over the top.
Keep a couple of things in mind Susan.
I'm not sure how experienced you are (my memory is erratic at best) but just in case, I'll post below, a thing I put on a facebook forum for a guy that was really struggling with nitrates and phosphates.
Keep a couple of things in mind Susan.
- If you use any form of carbon dosing you will need accurate test kits. API are useless, Salifert seem ok.
- If you use any form of carbon dosing and bring down nitrates too quickly, you are likely to crash the tank. Hence the importance of point 1.
- Carbon dosing is not for the feint hearted and requires lots of research. It can cause problems just as easily as fixing them.
- I'm sure you know this already but the most important thing is to find out why your nitrates are so high and fix it. Otherwise you'll just be chasing your tail so to speak.
I'm not sure how experienced you are (my memory is erratic at best) but just in case, I'll post below, a thing I put on a facebook forum for a guy that was really struggling with nitrates and phosphates.
From Facebook - PHOSPHATES & NITRATES - Nutrient Reduction.
PHOSPHATES
Without a reliable method of removing phosphates, you are unlikely to ever get it under control. In my opinion the easiest method is to run Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO) in a bag or preferably a reactor. There are more advanced methods like carbon dosing, biopellets, etc but you can crash your tank if you don't get those right.
Phosphates enter your tank in fish foods, particularly frozen foods, in unfiltered water for top up or mixing salt water, in many brands of aquarium salt, in natural seawater and by leeching out of old rock that has absorbed it over time.
NITRATES come from just about everything from unfiltered water & fish food, right through to fish pooh.
REGULAR MAINTENANCE IS KEY!
Some suggestions
Always try to vacuum your gravel and blow sediment off rocks with a baster or something, with every water change.
Better to underfeed than overfeed your tank. As a general guide, unless your fish spend much of their day picking at rocks, you are over feeding them.
Run a refugium and use macro algae to remove nutrients.
Run a filter sock on sump intake.
Clean the sump occasionally, not just the tank.
Get a good protein skimmer.
Run Purigen and/or Chemiclean Blue.
Keep a bag of high quality activated carbon in your sump.
Get a good clean up crew (CUC). Small shrimp, sea cucumbers, turbo snails, nassarius snails, stromb snails, Stomatella snails, trochus snails, bristleworms, micro brittlestars, sea hairs, abalone. Hermit crabs can be used too but they kill snails and walk all over corals, irritating them.
IN MY TANK I DO ALL OF THE ABOVE AND MORE.
PHOSPHATES
Without a reliable method of removing phosphates, you are unlikely to ever get it under control. In my opinion the easiest method is to run Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO) in a bag or preferably a reactor. There are more advanced methods like carbon dosing, biopellets, etc but you can crash your tank if you don't get those right.
Phosphates enter your tank in fish foods, particularly frozen foods, in unfiltered water for top up or mixing salt water, in many brands of aquarium salt, in natural seawater and by leeching out of old rock that has absorbed it over time.
NITRATES come from just about everything from unfiltered water & fish food, right through to fish pooh.
REGULAR MAINTENANCE IS KEY!
Some suggestions
Always try to vacuum your gravel and blow sediment off rocks with a baster or something, with every water change.
Better to underfeed than overfeed your tank. As a general guide, unless your fish spend much of their day picking at rocks, you are over feeding them.
Run a refugium and use macro algae to remove nutrients.
Run a filter sock on sump intake.
Clean the sump occasionally, not just the tank.
Get a good protein skimmer.
Run Purigen and/or Chemiclean Blue.
Keep a bag of high quality activated carbon in your sump.
Get a good clean up crew (CUC). Small shrimp, sea cucumbers, turbo snails, nassarius snails, stromb snails, Stomatella snails, trochus snails, bristleworms, micro brittlestars, sea hairs, abalone. Hermit crabs can be used too but they kill snails and walk all over corals, irritating them.
IN MY TANK I DO ALL OF THE ABOVE AND MORE.
Okay so let's begin at the source and work through? I'm happy to work through it with you and I'm sure others will chime in. Sometimes (as I know too well myself) it helps to have someone step you through it because it can be so obvious that we miss it. :)
So to start at the source:
- Do you use NSW (natural Sea Water) or do you mix it yourself (ASW)?
- If you mix, what type of salt are you using?
- Do you use RODI for top up / mixing?
- Do you have a TDS meter? If not "I think" I have a spare brand new one if you want it just for the cost of postage.
If you phosphates are dead low you might be hitting the wall in terms of redfield ratio.
In terms of what Nils was saying in regards to pellets, my tanks are fed 99% pellets and then a cube every month or two as a treat. If you get a small scoop for your pellets you can regulate it really well and will be surprised at how little your fish actually need.
I find NLS low leach, economical and appears to be nutritionally complete (have fish that are 6 years old that have been fed on it since day 1 of ownership)
I have gone over to elos in part for the last few years and you seem to use a lot less of it and it pollutes even less than NLS but its about three times the cost
In terms of what Nils was saying in regards to pellets, my tanks are fed 99% pellets and then a cube every month or two as a treat. If you get a small scoop for your pellets you can regulate it really well and will be surprised at how little your fish actually need.
I find NLS low leach, economical and appears to be nutritionally complete (have fish that are 6 years old that have been fed on it since day 1 of ownership)
I have gone over to elos in part for the last few years and you seem to use a lot less of it and it pollutes even less than NLS but its about three times the cost
Ok so have you tested the RO water for nitrates? I know it sounds strange but possibilities include faulty or expended filters, contaminated containers, etc.
I knew one guy , that after we found his RO water was no good, realised he would let the drum sit in his laundry sink until needed. Problem was that the laundry powder he used was quite dusty and was finding its way into the small opening in the top of his standard 20 litre drum. A qheck of the data sheet and the powder was laden with phosphates.
Second question - have you checked your newly mixed salt water for nitrates?
Expected but excellent nevertheless. I would make up some RO, leave it sit for a week then test it again to elinate the RO holding container as an issue. Nitrates from containers is more common than most people think but I'm only aware of two reasons for it. Using non food grade containers or build up inside the containers over time - usually a long time.
Just check your salt mix after you've made it up. Usually it's phosphates that can come with salts but nitrates are not unheard of, although it tends to be a batch issue rather than a permanent one.
Meanwhile can you put up a fish list with aprox sizes please, then exactly what food is fed (brand & type), aprox volume of each and frequency. Feeding of course introduces both nitrates & phosphates to the system and is unavoidable. However it varies by brand, usage, technique, even time of day in some instances. I've already read that you rinse with RO which is wise, I never did but then I was purposefully running high nutrient systems because of what I was stocking, breeding & cultivating.
Once I have the food info it will take me a while to obtain all the data sheets and study them but something you can try in the interim is (if you run activated carbon) mixing up a teaspoon of your carbon in a clean jar with a cup of RO water. Shake vigorously then leave on a sunny windowsill. At the end of two weeks in the sun there should be zero algae because it's a closed system. Any algae indicates high nutrients in the carbon, I have found this result in at least half a dozen carbons over the years. Algae or not, at the end of two weeks, test the water in the jar with a good test kit. You SHOULD still have zero nitrates if the carbon is good.
I got this tip 30 years ago from Heinz, a legend in the Victorian freshwater scene and an LFS owner for many many years.
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This step by step method can seem overly simple but it is in fact a well established scientific method. We even used it in computer science theory. This first stage is to establish that you are not accidentally introducing nitrates to the system.. Once this is done we delve into tank and equipment.
I must thank you again for your time, you are great,OK first I only use chemo-pure elite, no other carbon, My fish are large yellow tang, large sailfin tang, the have grown heaps since I got them,2 x clown, 2 x flame hawks, 2x dragonets, 1 dwarf angle, 1 x banana wrasse,1 blenny, 4 x chromis, 1x anemone , 2 x turbo snails 2 x Trojan snail. an assortment of other snails, 1 sand sifting star fish, that has grown huge,I put 5 x peppermint shrimp in but have not seen them since. As for feeding I feed 3 - 31/2 cubes of Ocean nutrition brine shrimp and a cube of lobster eggs every 2nd day, on the other day I feed nutrafin max granules about 4 pinches and 4 of New era aegis pellets and 1/2 lobster egg cube(for dragnets) , I feed 1/4 sheet of nori every day, I also give my anemone a tiny bit of raw prawn 1 x a week, I feed around 20mls of Marine Snow 1 x a week and 1 teaspoon of reef roids 1 x a week, 2 x a week I dose reef plus and reef trace,I use a mini tank to make up my water in and every couple of weeks i take it out in the sun and wash it out with vinegar
I have a rare form of recurring brain tumour. Short version is I tend to disappear suddenly for various reasons, from treatment to sleeping up to 40+ hours in one go. I've actually been clinically dead twice but it was ( I assume) boring, so here I am. :)
Here's a strange coincidence for you my first ever serious girlfriend (and sexual partner btw) was a lady named Carmel Stokes. She's now married some 25 years and is Carmel Bell. We still keep in touch loosely, always have. She also has a tumour that while not rare, behaves strangely - and she too has been dead twice, once rather famously, as per the Nine News clip below.
Here's a strange coincidence for you my first ever serious girlfriend (and sexual partner btw) was a lady named Carmel Stokes. She's now married some 25 years and is Carmel Bell. We still keep in touch loosely, always have. She also has a tumour that while not rare, behaves strangely - and she too has been dead twice, once rather famously, as per the Nine News clip below.
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I dose vinegar AND NOPOX, but I only use 1ml of NOPOX/100l and it seems to be working for me. NOPOX has methanol and vinegar in it, DO NOT get it on your skin or in your eyes, it can cause blindness even in your hands. I make biodiesel and I use a lot of methanol, be VERY VERY careful with it. Keep it up away from where a pet could get hold of it too. I don't want to sound alarmist, but methanol is nothing to play around with.
If you're going to start vinegar dosing, follow the recipe in that thread, but keep the dose the same and ramp it up slowly. If you go up too fast, you can cause a serious bacterial bloom that can wipe out your tank. Only dose it when the lights are on.
If you're going to start vinegar dosing, follow the recipe in that thread, but keep the dose the same and ramp it up slowly. If you go up too fast, you can cause a serious bacterial bloom that can wipe out your tank. Only dose it when the lights are on.
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