Reef Discussion

[Lesley]

Hi. First off I am on iPhone so excuse spelling auto corrects main computer broke. :(.

So as you all know I love my gonis. In the last 3 weeks I have lost 2 red gonis. They are fine , then close , then start peeling away polyp by polyp.
Takes about 4 days from closing to 100% bare

.If it was an sps I would describe at RTN. ( and I mean bare, not a polyp to be seen )

Here is an example. This one was healthy in Saturday.

Then today ( Monday ) outside starts closing down and actually blowing away in the breeze. I know this will be totally bare in next 2 days.

No other corals seem to be infected , parameters are fine although doser broke and I did have alk swing from 8.6 to 7.3 in about 5 days before I realized.

We decided tonight ( after 2 dead ) to take this one to shed & cut him in half , coral dipped good half & threw other half away.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

We have 14 gonis in the tank & a lot of dollars invested. Never seen this before and very worried it may not be contained to just gonis. We coral dipped another red that was showing early symptoms too. Both are back in tank although not happy.

We do have a fox face, flame angel and coral beauty.
The beauty has been with us 2 yrs so dont think its him, could this be a fish nipping or eating our corals ?

Any ideas or suggestions from anyone greatly appreciated. A little bit desperate and worried at this point.

Thanks

 

[ezza]

I had the same thing happen to my gonis and the only thing observed was the breeding of many many fireworms. After removing the giant mother of all fireworms, the Eunice worms and all the babies, all my corals have been happier. The Goni that I have left stopped receding, generally it looks like the worms were eating the corals and generally pissing things off.

 

[Savage Henry]

Although I wouldn't for a minute discount Ezza's suggestion, I think with the fireworms there's always the debate whether they did the deed or whether they only arrived on the scene to clean up the mess.

From the pattern of destruction, it looks like something small. It doesn't look like a fish to me because it's not random across the whole coral. It's like a little lawn mower has taken to your corals. You know how angels nip a bit here and a bit there? That hasn't happened here.

It's not like the tissue degeneration I experienced with an SPS where one small patch of the SPS was attacked by something and then the whole thing just disintegrated at once within 24 hours.

Otherwise, I know nothing about Gonis and have kept away from them because of their bad reputation for dying.

 

[Robertgoldring]

I know it's a zoa but as @ezza says it's a possibility

 

[Savage Henry]

Ahh, yes the Eunice worm is a different kettle of fish.

I have had Eunice worms eat my zoas, zoanthids and even repeatedly drag a dead man's finger coral under a rock to eat it.

But, in my experience they don't mow paths through the zoas etc.

Also, I have had corals eaten by a worm that built a tube to the corals and ate night using a red light I could actually see the worm moving through the tube to get at my corals. But again, it consumed a chunk of the coral and didn't mow.

 

[slin1977]

It's always a tough one but from my experience three things caused RTN and STN in LPS ( note I never kept Goni)

First / phosphate absorbing media and their over use , possibly remove the media for a week.
Second/ alkalinity swings cause RTN/ STN
Third / salinity high than normal salinity will quickly turn a display tank into a skeleton graveyard .

Personally I would start by looking at the phosphate media angle - since you have added lots of fish , have you added more media?

 

[Lesley]

It's always a tough one but from my experience three things caused RTN and STN in LPS ( note I never kept Goni)

First / phosphate absorbing media and their over use , possibly remove the media for a week.
Second/ alkalinity swings cause RTN/ STN
Third / salinity high than normal salinity will quickly turn a display tank into a skeleton graveyard .

Personally I would start by looking at the phosphate media angle - since you have added lots of fish , have you added more media?

Ok,
firstly I am liking the phos media over use. I have been changing media a lot more than usual, because of the over feeding of the new fish. I did just replace Rowa Phos about the time it started happening and put a little extra in My phos was at 0.09 and went to 0.00 within 24hrs of testing. It is still at 0

other thing it could be is the doser packed up and it took me a a couple of days notice the container was not emptying. Alk did drop from 8.6 to 7.3, over about 3 days or so.

Is that a large enough swing ?

I will also calibrate my refractometer, I do run at 1..26 so suppose if it was out it may be too high.

Thank you,.

 

[Lesley]

I had the same thing happen to my gonis and the only thing observed was the breeding of many many fireworms. After removing the giant mother of all fireworms, the Eunice worms and all the babies, all my corals have been happier. The Goni that I have left stopped receding, generally it looks like the worms were eating the corals and generally pissing things off.

I do have a ton of worms, I did dip the two infected once last night, a few baby bristle worms and another little buggie thingy came out in the dip.
These two gonis and the other 2 that actually died are placed at varies heights and positions around the tank, so my thinking is that it an awful coincidence for only gonis to be affected and no other coral if it was to be worm, I am thinking goni specific. But certainly not discounting the worm factor.

in fact can anyone ID this guy with the antena please, If hes a baddy I would love to know.

 

[RobbieMVFC]

So sorry for your loss Lesley ,
when it comes to Gonis there isn't many with as much experience as you.
Have you done anything differently lately ? New food perhaps ?

Is that 2 creatures or one in the photo ?

 

[slin1977]

Ok,
firstly I am liking the phos media over use. I have been changing media a lot more than usual, because of the over feeding of the new fish. I did just replace Rowa Phos about the time it started happening and put a little extra in My phos was at 0.09 and went to 0.00 within 24hrs of testing. It is still at 0

other thing it could be is the doser packed up and it took me a a couple of days notice the container was not emptying. Alk did drop from 8.6 to 7.3, over about 3 days or so.

Is that a large enough swing ?

I will also calibrate my refractometer, I do run at 1..26 so suppose if it was out it may be too high.

Thank you,.

Your alk swing is nothing if it's range is within 6.5 to 8.5 so that's fine.
I know it nit picky but shoot for 1.025 on the salinity.

I am afraid to say IMO your problem lies with the phosphate media being too aggressive in stripping your tank of nutrients.
Your tank will establish equilibrium with the new fish over time but in the meantime you will need to think about how you can juggle more fish waste without how to say "aggressively" removing it.

 

[Lesley]

So sorry for your loss Lesley ,
when it comes to Gonis there isn't many with as much experience as you.
Have you done anything differently lately ? New food perhaps ?

Is that 2 creatures or one in the photo ?

2 creatures. One is small bristle worm other I have no clue ? With regards to different - yes have been feeding whole tank more than usual. But can't imagine extra amino & roids would cause such an issue. Your question has made me think - we have been doing quite large water changes compared to usual. We normally do 250ltr every 21 days. But because I was over feeding new additions we have done 400ltrs every fortnight. Think I will go back to 3 weekly 250ltr for a while. See what happens.

 

[Lesley]

Your alk swing is nothing if it's range is within 6.5 to 8.5 so that's fine.
I know it nit picky but shoot for 1.025 on the salinity.

I am afraid to say IMO your problem lies with the phosphate media being too aggressive in stripping your tank of nutrients.
Your tank will establish equilibrium with the new fish over time but in the meantime you will need to think about how you can juggle more fish waste without how to say "aggressively" removing it.

Yeah. Now newbies are 3 months in and happy , healthy and all fat my feeding schedule is changing.l I am only feeding 4 times - small amounts instead of 6 times large amounts. So the use of Rowa will be lessened considerably. Do you suggest I take the Rowa offline ? Or remove the "extra " I put in ? Or leave it , don't change for a while & watch numbers ? Do I ditch any corals showing signs ? Do you think they can be saved once displaying symptoms ? Thanks

 

[slin1977]

I would suggest it's the extra that went in that needs removal and then a bit more for now.

How much Rowa was in four months ago ? compared to now and go back to that amount.
Or for now go to half that amount and then slowly build up.
Don't take it off line as your phosphate will climb quickly and that might be hard to reign in again.

Leave the corals in , they should recover.

Aiming for 0.03 to 0.05 Phos for your LPS tank should keep them happy.

 

[Lesley]

I would suggest it's the extra that went in that needs removal and then a bit more for now.

How much Rowa was in four months ago ? compared to now and go back to that amount.
Or for now go to half that amount and then slowly build up.
Don't take it off line as your phosphate will climb quickly and that might be hard to reign in again.

Leave the corals in , they should recover.

Aiming for 0.03 to 0.05 Phos for your LPS tank should keep them happy.

Ok. Thanks. Always used to run 0.03. Will remove half & try to get back to that slowly. Thanks for your help. Will see how it goes.

 

[ezza]

I do have a ton of worms, I did dip the two infected once last night, a few baby bristle worms and another little buggie thingy came out in the dip.
These two gonis and the other 2 that actually died are placed at varies heights and positions around the tank, so my thinking is that it an awful coincidence for only gonis to be affected and no other coral if it was to be worm, I am thinking goni specific. But certainly not discounting the worm factor.

in fact can anyone ID this guy with the antena please, If hes a baddy I would love to know.

View attachment 51948

It looks like a juvenile Eunice worm to me... But I am probably wrong. But it really does look like one.

 

[Franklin Dattein]

Given that you have a number of Gonis, I guess you understand the need of target feeding them.

The few times I tried to keep Gonis, I lost them for one of the reasons already mentioned.
1. Alk swing. You would also see the effects on SPS, if that was the culpirt.
2. Bobbit worm. You would see the impact on corals like zoas and small fish disappearing, as well.
3. Flame angel and other angels. They are masters of not nipping corals in front of the Aquarist, leading use to believe we were lucky and got a reef safe one. You would see the coral closed for extended periods of time, prior to it dissolving.

Finally, instead of cutting the dying parts, you can apply super glue on the edges of the healthy tissue. That tends to be less messy than cutting the coral skeleton.

 

[Agent M]

Tissue recession in goni's has been linked by a few 'expert hobbyists' to low strontium levels I believe. Would be interesting to know what your levels are, although if you are doing more water changes than usual and they have thrived up to now, I would imagine strontium wouldn't be low.

 

[ReeferRob]

If you've added more GFO lately, I'd say that is probably your culprit as well as the reason for your alkalinity swing. I don't like Flame angels, no way, no how in a reef tank because they're nippers, coral and clams. If it were my tank, cut back to just below where you were before with the GFO and see what happens, don't take it totally offline.

 

[Lesley]

Thanks everyone.

1. Rowa is back to amount I used to use and still running.

2. Refractometer has been calibrated and it is def 1.026. We have always run our tanks (old and new) at this so am happy to keep it there.

3. I have target fed all goni's in the tank, healthy and fat means better immune system (apparently)

4. The smaller of the reds in the picture had about half its polyps covered in Brown Jelly when I got home today. So he has now been cut severel (MORE THAN HALF GONE IN BIN ) and dipped again, but I am not to hopeful he will recover. :(

5. The larger one that was hacked to death int he shed vice last night seems to be opening and looking pretty good. No sign of brown jelly or receding floating away polyps so far.

6. Bad news is I now have 2 other gonis, one red and one white that are closed up and not looking great. urghhhh..So will be keeping a very close eye on them too.

You know whats really funny, we sat about 2 weeks ago and spoke on how well things are going and most of the hard work had been done, we could for the first time in a long time sit back and relax and enjoy a little .
I made comment that its probably the "calm before the storm"
How right was I.
I honestly think these things are sent to test us, my husband says "to test the bank account"

 

[Lesley]

Tissue recession in goni's has been linked by a few 'expert hobbyists' to low strontium levels I believe. Would be interesting to know what your levels are, although if you are doing more water changes than usual and they have thrived up to now, I would imagine strontium wouldn't be low.

Thanks for that, I will go and get a strontium test kit - do salifet do one ?
I am still using the seachem trace and plus 2x week as directed.
But with the amount of dosing of alk, cal and mag i am having to do at the moment it would sunrise me really.