Reef Discussion

[helioschmelio]

OMG my helio is dead and all the other corals look sick

I have a nano cube 20 litres with the original lighting about 5 weeks old i ran it for 2 weeks with just live rock and then have put in the coral over the last 2 weeks the helio was the first .

Ok everything except the ammonia and the nitrite is up a little, all other things are fine I have done a 3/4 change as advised by the LFS .
I have some krill to feed the helio ( if it gets better ) was told that the helio was probably starving seeing i had only given it some live brine shrimp once and that was the day b4 they all got sick IDk that i was supposed to feed it meat ( it was healthy and beautiful b4 the brine shrimp )

I have a helio, a small hammer , a round domed, thing coral a tree looking one and i had a small starfish which has now gone to heaven

The starfish was the 1st thing to die or melt and that was monday now the helio looks to have a white patch on it and no tenticles on that part and so does the hammer and the tree one the domey looking one looks sick

Sorry im not sure about all the measurements all i know is that they are all ok except the ammonia and the nitrite which was violet in the test tube and the ammonia that was a not zero only the first of the colours on the chart ( IUKWIM)

IDK what I did wrong !! IDK what I can do ? I have some roids should i feed them with that ?

Any suggestions PLEASE !!!

 

[DavidS]

I would suggest that your issues are the ammonia and nitrite.

You've said that they're up - you shouldn't be getting readings at all for these two - so it sounds like your tank may be cycling still.
The cycle stage is a bit of a toxic soup. If the cycle hasn't completed, then your tank doesn't have the ability to deal with waste (corals produce it as well) - so uneaten foods breaking down are feeding the ammonia, and you don't yet have your tank at a stage that can deal with the ammonia properly.
Things dying creates more ammonia - something that over time your tank will have the ability to deal with, but it's not mature enough to do this just yet.

You might want to find out if there are other local reef keepers who might be able to look after your remaining coral and see if they can keep them until your tank finishes this cycle, then slowly start to reintroduce them. Failing that, if your LFS is really nice, they might have an established tank they might be willing to hold everything in for a few more weeks.
If you can do that, then get your corals out, and let the tank finish cycling for few more weeks. If nothing else, you've got a decent enough ammonia spike to get the cycle running.

 

[chimaera]

I agree with David - sounds like you rushed your corals a bit and your tank is still unstable. The starfish death, if you left it in the tank, will have spiked the ammonia causing a further cycle which the helio is suffering from.

If you can't take the corals out, keep doing large water changes to reduce the toxicity in there.

 

[Agent M]

Hi helioschmelio :welcome

Sounds like the advice the LFS has given you so far is ok except there is no way the Helio starved to death in just 2 weeks. Lack of feeding would not be the cause so rest easy on that one. I would not do any feeding just yet until everything is sorted out, as that will pollute the water further.

We do need some more information to help work out where the problem is coming from. You have mentioned ammonia and nitrite are a little higher than they should be, so its possible that your corals are dying because of the cycle, but I would also like to know:

What sort of lighting do you have?

What is your salinity level?

What temperature do you have the tank at?

What are you using for flow?


There might be a different cause we can identify if we have this info too. HTH

 

[helioschmelio]

:) Ty all for ur help
I took the starfish out when it was obvious that he had gone to the starfish heaven

the poor helio is now showing its skeleton and the mouth is opening and there are less and less of the actual tenticles and more of the dead sloughing skin
The top pic i took tonight and the other pic is this ams pic it really has gone bad really quick

Anyway here are some stats
Nano Space 2 - 24 litres
Flowrate of the pump 300 litres/hr
No of LED 20 (4.8 W)
Lighting - Super sun and Actinic Blue ( according to the box) Dual colour mode LED lamp -12 V ( daylight and Moonlight mode )
I have been switching the light off completely at night
Temp 24 C
Salininty 1.0235
Carb Hardness 4.0 meq per litre 11.2 DKH
Calcium 600 mg per litre (ppm)
Nitrate 0.0 - 5
Phosphate 0.0 - 0.25

I dont have a test kit for the ammonia and the nitrite I had that tested at the LFS

I had the water tested at the LFS b4 I started to add the corals and it was all good
The helio is in the bottom corner so its out of the water flow only a gentle movement of the water by the returning water or ripple effect as per the box
The lighting is the bar lighting provided with the tank althought the LFS said I should buy a $290 plus LED light (plate?)
Should I leave the light on at night and put it in the moonlight mode ?

I appreciate any help ty all

 

[VaultBoy]

looks like your calc is very high... I wouldnt worry to much but I would be testing my change water to make sure its not increasing it (my tank has had a siilar calc level for 12 months with no noticable problems... but i do monitor it!) Also salinity is a little low what are you using to test?

as for lighting I think if you have 20 emitters with a total of 4.8 watt draw I dont think it sounds suitable for coral perhaps consider a small diy led build with about 4 - 6 3w cree leds should be fine on a little nano.

I think that your biggest problem is the cycle possibly caused by the starfish death or by adding too much bio load too early.

keep up big water changes and keep testing and it will be fine eventually... i would try and find a home for any healthy-ish corals in the interim.

good luck and keep us posted

 

[helioschmelio]

:)ty for ur help and for everyones help
Cause the tank is really new 5 weeks about i have been testing it like every couple of days but i dont have the ammonia or nitrite test kit so I had that tested at the LFS b4 i put the coral in. and i had it tested again on friday at the LFS
I have a API reef master test kit (marine ) tests for Calcium, Carbonate hardness, Phosphate, Nitrate and a Red Sea KH/ Alkalinity Pro I have a refactrometer ( ? idk how to spell that lol ) and i have been using the Seachem Reef fusion 1 & 2 two part system to maintain Calcium and Alkalinity


Can i ask a few questions please ?

Do u think i should leave the lights on all night daylight mode and then moonlight mode at night or do u think its ok to switch them completley off at night?
Do u think that sea water from the LFS is better to use than mixing my own and if i mix my own do i need to let it bubble in another tank for a few days b4 putting it in my own tank ?

is there a good test kit for the ammonia and nitrite ? that u could recommend that wont break my bank
Do u think a separate tank to quarantine new corals etc is a good idea ?
Cause thats what im thinking settting up another tank to make sure i dont have this happen again
I think the starfish may have been sick and when it started to die it did a bad thing to my corals

My helio has stopped losing its skin today but now the ends of the tentilcles are dropping off do u think its trying to propagate itself ? the hammer doesnt look too good either its just all pulled in no tenticles waving about but no where near as bad as the helio and the tree one is ok
ty ty all for all ur help

looks like your calc is very high... I wouldnt worry to much but I would be testing my change water to make sure its not increasing it (my tank has had a siilar calc level for 12 months with no noticable problems... but i do monitor it!) Also salinity is a little low what are you using to test?

as for lighting I think if you have 20 emitters with a total of 4.8 watt draw I dont think it sounds suitable for coral perhaps consider a small diy led build with about 4 - 6 3w cree leds should be fine on a little nano.

I think that your biggest problem is the cycle possibly caused by the starfish death or by adding too much bio load too early.

keep up big water changes and keep testing and it will be fine eventually... i would try and find a home for any healthy-ish corals in the interim.

good luck and keep us posted

Ty

 

[Buddy]

NSW is no problem at all if you want to use it. My lights turn completely off at night. Just get the cheapy API kits for ammonia and nitrite, they are fine. I dont have a seperate quarantine tank for corals but some people prefer to. I would just keep the helio in low light and low flow until all its flesh has grown back and then slowly move it back in to more light. It may lose its colour when its growing back but it will regain the colour if it becomes healthy again.

 

[helioschmelio]

:)

NSW is no problem at all if you want to use it. My lights turn completely off at night. Just get the cheapy API kits for ammonia and nitrite, they are fine. I dont have a seperate quarantine tank for corals but some people prefer to. I would just keep the helio in low light and low flow until all its flesh has grown back and then slowly move it back in to more light. It may lose its colour when its growing back but it will regain the colour if it becomes healthy again.

ok :) ty i will just have to be more patient and when it looks so awful whaaa whaaa its hard to not be ty for ur help

 

[helioschmelio]

I would suggest that your issues are the ammonia and nitrite.

You've said that they're up - you shouldn't be getting readings at all for these two - so it sounds like your tank may be cycling still.
The cycle stage is a bit of a toxic soup. If the cycle hasn't completed, then your tank doesn't have the ability to deal with waste (corals produce it as well) - so uneaten foods breaking down are feeding the ammonia, and you don't yet have your tank at a stage that can deal with the ammonia properly.
Things dying creates more ammonia - something that over time your tank will have the ability to deal with, but it's not mature enough to do this just yet.

You might want to find out if there are other local reef keepers who might be able to look after your remaining coral and see if they can keep them until your tank finishes this cycle, then slowly start to reintroduce them. Failing that, if your LFS is really nice, they might have an established tank they might be willing to hold everything in for a few more weeks.
If you can do that, then get your corals out, and let the tank finish cycling for few more weeks. If nothing else, you've got a decent enough ammonia spike to get the cycle running.

ty :) yep i have had a really decent ammonia spike lol lol lol great not what i want lol lol the LFS i think dont want to take it back now IDK why seeing they said its half dead and starving :( I really appreciate all the advise i feel like such a dummy Do they have one of those reef keeping books for Dummies ? i suppose its all a learning curve thank you for all the encouragement and help

 

[helioschmelio]

Thank you to EVERYONE i will be just more patient and a bit more attentive and monitor a bit more thank you all so much i will keeep u posted ty again

 

[Agent M]

Thanks for the extra info helioschmelio !
I noticed in the first picture that there is sand on the coral - just make sure if any sand goes on the corals that you wave your hand over the top of the coral to brush it off - sand can cause the corals to die if it sits on the flesh for too long.

Considering your tank is so small, I'm going to suggest that you do a 100% water change as a few things are not right with your water chemistry, the calcium being one of them. It will also give the corals some relief if the ammonia and nitrites are the cause of the die off.

To do the 100% water change, buy 24 litres of natural salt water (NSW) from the LFS and heat it up to 24 degrees. Then put your corals in a bucket with some tank water. Remove all of the water from your tank, either scoop it out or siphon it out - while you are doing this, you want to get rid of any crud that should not be in there, even clean the glass if there is any algae on it coz we want that out too - if the remains of the starfish are still in there or whatever, it needs to get removed from the tank.

Once the water is at 24 degrees, add it to your tank and put your corals back in, give them a little bit of a swish in the old tank water first to remove any loose bits that shouldn't be on them - do this gently. When you put them back in the tank, put them closer to the light, raised half way up in the tank and make sure they are getting good flow without it blasting directly on them.

Get a permanent marker and put a little line on the outside of your tank where the water line is. As this goes down, top it up again with fresh RO/DI water.

From this point on, test your water daily for phosphates and nitrates, and every time it goes up again, do another water change. If you don't want to test every day, change your water twice a week for the next few weeks, and get your water tested once a week at the LFS. This is just temporary until the corals recover (I am unsure if they will but this should give them a good chance).

You may get different advice from different people, but it will get you through the cycle and give your corals the best chance of survival at the same time.

HTH

 

[chimaera]

What she said =0)

 

[VaultBoy]

I agree with Agent M on all points but one. If a coral gets sand on it dont try to remove it most if not qll corals have means of dealing with foreign bodies. There was an article postedc on here a while ago about helios (i think) can unearth themselves when completely covered by sand. This happens every time there is a storm...

 

[Agent M]

...sand can cause the corals to die if it sits on the flesh for too long.

:p

 

[slin1977]

Your helio will need minimum of 50 Par of light.
I think your lights are not suitable for a helio.
Some starfish eat coral too.
Stay clear of LFS that tell you what you want to hear, I have heard so much rubbish over the years.
My opinion is that your KH is way too high. NSW KH is 8 . Your coral would be shocked from such a difference from 8 to 11 Jremember it is a logarithmic table, kind of like the richter scale.
Also remove any phosphate binding bags from your tank, sometimes they are just too efficient at removing these chemicals.
Return the bags as the phosphate gets up past upper limits.
Best run any ideas or questions past the forum.
Experience is gained by failure too but a few things can be avoided.
I wish you best of luck and by no means mean to sound like a lecture.