Reef Discussion

[joey13]

Just performed the test. I find this kit very hard to read accurately. Thoughts?

 

[joey13]

The Mrs seems to think that the result is in between 0.15-0.3

 

[suta42]

You're right, it's hard to read. :rolleyes

If you do the reading in daylight it's much easier. From the photo my guesstimate is above 0.15 but IMO that's meaningless, because of the importance of reading it in indirect daylight.

I found it helpful to take all readings either with ambient room light or outdoors (without the sun on your back). Do the readings under the same conditions twice a day.


HTH

 

[joey13]

That is sitting on the window sill so it is ambient daylight. I'm think a 50% change is the go at this point?

 

[suta42]

Thanks for the tips mate.

I'm led to believe that this is not necessarily the case.

Something in Cupramine throws off the ammonia testing kits and gives a false positive?

From the Seachem website:

A: Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramine™ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramine™. Our Ammonia Alert™ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia™ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines.

You need to use the seachem ammonia test kit to get an accurate ammonia reading.

 

[suta42]

That is sitting on the window sill so it is ambient daylight. I'm think a 50% change is the go at this point?

So there's no afternoon sun shining in, right? If not yeah I would do a big water change. Just remember, whatever happens don't use a dechlorinator as you end up altering complexed copper, and the copper then becomes as toxic as copper sulfate. Under those circumstances it's very very easy to lose your fish.

 

[Agent M]

The Mrs seems to think that the result is in between 0.15-0.3

Thats what I'm seeing as well

 

[joey13]

Just performed a 100L Water change (55%) so whatever the figure is, it should be halved now.

 

[ezza]

0.5mg/l is the reccomended and effective dose Magic so not sure where you got that info.

Fish all appear normal this morning. Nil signs of stress at all. All swimming and eating well!

I'll do a test later on today and see if the Cuprisorb has done its job.

Google is your friend. I started on the seachem website then tried to find an msds, then was googling the half life of cupramine and came across the page linked to. To be specific. Just trying to help the man who ODed the copper. Won't bother in future.

 

[joey13]

Looks like I wasn't so lucky. Looks like my Laboute Wrasse isn't going to make it

 

[suta42]

:(. Really sorry to hear.

Did you manage to get a reading with the seachem ammonia test? Just that it's possible your bacteria took a hit...if that happened you'll need to watch out for the remaining fish. :(

 

[joey13]

Can't get a hold of a Seachem ammonia kit. All the other fish seem fine. Not exactly sure if it was the copper or sudden change in parameters of the new water that stressed and killed him. Suprised that they all didn't die

 

[Susan Bates]

I can't answer your other questions, but as the fish aren't in quarantine because they are sick, I would do a 100% water change, take the fish out and acclimatise them to the new water, then observe for a few days to make sure they haven't been poisoned. Once you know you are in the clear, resume your treatment.

Hi is this cupramine safe in a reef tank, my tank is still going but not looking 2 good, he what looks like big marks on his side just up from his tail

 

[ReeferRob]

Hi is this cupramine safe in a reef tank, my tank is still going but not looking 2 good, he what looks like big marks on his side just up from his tail

Copper is NEVER safe in a reef tank.

 

[suta42]

:( Unfortunately Susan, rob is completely right. I understand you desperately want this fish to survive but copper of any kind in a reef tank will kill all living inverts (coral, pods, sponges, worms and a host of other life you only see at night) leading to a huge cycle which will then kill the fish.

Your best bet is just to leave him in your display and do your best to maintain good water and feeding. If you want to keep trying Medic that's fine, but that would be all.

All the best,
Angie.

 

[suta42]

Can't get a hold of a Seachem ammonia kit. All the other fish seem fine. Not exactly sure if it was the copper or sudden change in parameters of the new water that stressed and killed him. Suprised that they all didn't die

Hi joey,

What I find works when using cupramine is to have a large back up supply of ASW or IBC of nsw. That way I can do close to 100% changes daily if needed, without impact as the parameters are constant throughout. I just heat the water to the same temp and throw in a tunze powerhead to ensure adequate oxygen is available before the change. Fwiw you can tell whether the fish are stressed by watching their behaviour around food. That usually tells you when your parameters are off, and test kits typically confirm your observations.

HTH.

 

[Agent M]

Hi is this cupramine safe in a reef tank, my tank is still going but not looking 2 good, he what looks like big marks on his side just up from his tail

@Susan Bates As the others said, Cupramine is toxic to everything, even the fish if its overdosed. Stick with your Medic treatment, it has been proven to work even though nothing is guaranteed - DOUBLE the dosage and treat for 10 days as it sounds like a stronger dose may be needed.

Feed the fish well, if you want to reduce a bit of stress and help keep the fish's appetite up, bring your salinity in your reef tank down to a specific gravity of 1.020. This will help keep the fish hydrated and conserves their energy. A well hydrated animal is more likely to keep eating. As long as the tang is still eating there is a good chance of a full recovery.

You can also try adding ground ginger powder (that you use in gingerbread/cooking) to some defrosted frozen foods - it is said to increase the natural slime coating on fish and help them fight off the parasites that way. It doesn't matter if a pinch of it gets in your water.

Other than these things, I wouldn't try anything else until you have finished 10 days of double strength Medic treatment.