Reef Discussion

holly · May 30, 2014

Got it 5 days ago, absolutely health and swimming around but not eating (as expected). Was planning on getting some fresh mussels today to try to get it eating. Woke up this morning to find it floating at the top of the tank. Thought it was dead, apparently not as it keeps floating then swimming intermittently. Almost trying to swim out of the water.

I turned the pumps all down to minimum as it was struggling with the current.

It's in a relatively 'new' tank. Fresh heated salt water and cured live rock straight into the tank. No noticeable cycle in nitrite/ammonia. There has been a spike in phos as the GHA has started recently. Dosing new algae, silica once a week;

Salinity - 1.026 although this swings up to 1.028 once a week due to the ATO not being as smart as I would like it to be.
Temp- between 24.5 and 25
ph 7.8
ca 450ppm
nitrate 5-10ppm (salifert)
Volume 900lts
Skimmer is rated for 400L as morphs require different level of nutrients.

Will change out carbon and phos media today to see if that makes a difference.

One other occupant (blue damsel) is AOK and curious as to why the poor bugger is swimming around a bit weird.

Buddy · May 30, 2014

I had exactly the same thing happen to a copperband I had a while back. Fine for a week then it was like this. Mine had red but it wasn't as bad. It only lasted a few hours. I dunno why it died all of a sudden.
My current copperband is great. It eats mussel that I tie to a frag plug and drop in the tank.

holly · May 30, 2014

Damn :( Do you think it's worth calling the LFS I bought it from?

Buddy · May 30, 2014

Hmm I'm not sure.
The only thing that I could see that would cause the red rash is ammonia burn. I know I don't have an ammonia reading in my tank and I'm sure it's the same for you.

holly · May 30, 2014

I tested ammonia before adding the copperband, it was on undetectable (salifert). The damsel has been in there form the start and it's absolutely fine...

Lesley · May 30, 2014

Are you positive he's not getting smacked around by the other fish. ?? I have a yellow tang that was getting picked on by a powder blue and he would have the same red On him. It is almost like bruising. We got rid of powder blue and it took a few weeks and red marks gone never to be seen again !!

Lesley · May 30, 2014

p.S. How old is your tank ?

holly · May 30, 2014

The copperband didn't see out the day unfortunately. :cry

@Lesley The damsel and copper band never had issue with each other which is surprising for a damsel. The damsel is pretty shy and prefers to just hang out in its cave all day.

The tank is essentially a tank transfer - cured live rock and water from other tanks plus new water was put into it about 4-5 weeks ago. The damsel was added 2 weeks later. I'm only just starting to see a light haze of algae growing but I have been dosing nualgae so it's probably a phos and/or diatom spike. The fish was fine until this morning, the red marks just appeared overnight. Up until that point the fish had been hanging out in the unlit left 5 feet of tank space swimming around the skimmer and the wave maker. I think I'll just go for a hardier butterfly fish and perhaps get it from somewhere else. $45 is a lot of money to spend on a fish for me. I knew I was taking a risk with it but I wasn't expecting it to come with some sort of bacterial infection.

The damsel is rocking on like normal :cool:

Polyps · May 30, 2014

As a guess. I believe this fish was stressed for whatever reason, common tendency for Chelmon's is to thrash when stressed which commonly causers them to thrash themselves against surfaces. This can then easily turn into a bacterial infection further stressing the fish which will inevitably not end well. I wouldn't suggest calling the supplier as like you said "absolutely health and swimming around". Chelmon's are commonly regarded as great Aptasia control species which often causes the aquarist to overlook the fact that this species is generally quite difficult to keep (Not saying you bought it for Aptasia control nor suggesting anyones experience level). In general I would think its fair to say that very established aquariums with minimal fish with equivalent dietary requirements would be a good starting point. FWIW I too have had minimal long term success with copperbands.

holly · May 30, 2014

Definitely bought it for aptasia control as there is always 1 or 10 that manage to get into tanks. I think I'll just be waiting 5 or so months, manually removing the aptasia when I do see it and then looking at adding fish again.

Sam Parker · May 30, 2014

Sorry to hear :(

Str8edge · May 30, 2014

Sorry to hear of your loss they are a beautiful fish.. I purchased a butterfly around 3 weeks ago and it quickly became my favourite fish I had a choice from 2 different types when I purchased mine from deer park and going by daves advice I choose a margined butterfly they look very similar to a copperband but apparently have a slightly larger mouth taking food easier if you get around to trying a butterfly again give a margined a look they have a better success rate..

Lesley · May 30, 2014

I have had a very healthy copperband for about 6 months now. I researched and found that even after being in an established tank for a long time they still have problems catching/chasing food with such a long narrow mouth. Mine is fine now but I still put a netted seaweed clip in every so often to make sure he is eating. It has just big enough holes in the net for him & the yellow tangs. He loves it. I hang it down a crack in the rock work and he has to get underneath and peck to eat. Loves it. Might be worth

getting one if you are looking at another one, as this is their natural feeding position. They can eat and chase but don't usually get there fair share with all the hungry tangs I have.

Polyps · May 30, 2014

holly said:
Definitely bought it for aptasia control as there is always 1 or 10 that manage to get into tanks. I think I'll just be waiting 5 or so months, manually removing the aptasia when I do see it and then looking at adding fish again.

May think about Kleins butterfly or train some peps to eat Aptasia?

Str8edge said:
Sorry to hear of your loss they are a beautiful fish.. I purchased a butterfly around 3 weeks ago and it quickly became my favourite fish I had a choice from 2 different types when I purchased mine from deer park and going by daves advice I choose a margined butterfly they look very similar to a copperband but apparently have a slightly larger mouth taking food easier if you get around to trying a butterfly again give a margined a look they have a better success rate..

Yes, easier to keep but not recognised as Aptasia control species.

Lesley said:
I have had a very healthy copperband for about 6 months now. I researched and found that even after being in an established tank for a long time they still have problems catching/chasing food with such a long narrow mouth. Mine is fine now but I still put a netted seaweed clip in every so often to make sure he is eating. It has just big enough holes in the net for him & the yellow tangs. He loves it. I hang it down a crack in the rock work and he has to get underneath and peck to eat. Loves it. Might be worthView attachment 41074 getting one if you are looking at another one, as this is their natural feeding position. They can eat and chase but don't usually get there fair share with all the hungry tangs I have.

(Y) Sound good, question though do you put seaweed in the clip with the mesh???

Lesley · May 30, 2014

Polyps said:
May think about Kleins butterfly or train some peps to eat Aptasia?

Yes, easier to keep but not recognised as Aptasia control species.

(Y) Sound good, question though do you put seaweed in the clip with the mesh???

no,, a good quality vegie pellet, its a mix of all types of veggies.. its called Marine Green. Slow to defrost and doesn't float away

Lesley · May 30, 2014

holly said:
Definitely bought it for aptasia control as there is always 1 or 10 that manage to get into tanks. I think I'll just be waiting 5 or so months, manually removing the aptasia when I do see it and then looking at adding fish again.

The Red Sea aptasia X is a fantastic product. Got rid of mine very quickly. You literately see them die within mins of feeding it to them. Just be careful because is contains a lot of calcium and if you use too much too quickly your cal will go through the roof. Stops them from sending spawn around the tank too., so very efficient /

Buddy · May 30, 2014

Lesley said:
I have had a very healthy copperband for about 6 months now. I researched and found that even after being in an established tank for a long time they still have problems catching/chasing food with such a long narrow mouth. Mine is fine now but I still put a netted seaweed clip in every so often to make sure he is eating. It has just big enough holes in the net for him & the yellow tangs. He loves it. I hang it down a crack in the rock work and he has to get underneath and peck to eat. Loves it. Might be worthView attachment 41074 getting one if you are looking at another one, as this is their natural feeding position. They can eat and chase but don't usually get there fair share with all the hungry tangs I have.

That is great! Can you buy them like that or did you just put the netted part there yourself?

Lesley · May 30, 2014

Buddy said:
That is great! Can you buy them like that or did you just put the netted part there yourself?

No I bought it, about $12 if I remember correctly.
He wasn't eating when we got him it took about 5 days of me sticking it on the glass before I realized he would have a better chance in the rocks. The minute I put it somewhere he could get to it from underneath he started eating. once he got stronger and healthier he then started eating with the other fish. I think sometimes feeding time can be intimidating for a new fish, with everyone darting around like idiots.

Polyps · May 31, 2014

@Lesley , FYI CB butterflies are carnivores so you may want to alter its diet a little for long term success :)

Oceanarium · May 31, 2014

Perhaps it was ammonia burning in the bag from collector / importer.

Kleins is a good idea, I find them very easy to keep and awesome at apitasia... caveat emptor is what you want to keep with it ? If its just morphs it should be OK I have enough confidence with mine they look after my Ric tanks so they would be expensive fish if they took to them :p I found them to be less reliable with Zoa and other corals.

I have an army of Margins and Copperbands, coral farming its almost inevitable you will sooner or latter have a apitasia get through and the food for corals makes them explode in population without control. Any tank with a Margin or Copperband is nem free even one per 2000ltr tank works fine.

I prefer the Margin coral fish as a more reliable one. That one already looks a little skinny I can see the shape of the back bone. I find if they have not been kept well and feeding from the outset it can be hard to get them to take food again once they have been fasting. Also size is very important, the big ones 10cm plus are difficult to take well to captivity. I have pretty much a 100% success with small ones direct from the collector. Once acclimated they are fantastic and little miss piggys when it come to feeding time, i will have to get some pictures to show them begging for food.

Difficult to get but also well worth if you can find is the western butterfly fish.