Reef Discussion

[Sam Parker]

How many weeks in a couple of months, 8 or 80???? It's your analogy we quoting. You clearly believe that you have a clear understand on the effect of waterchanges vs phosphate, theoretical or practical???? I don't know; but if you feel your correctly advising people on the many ways to skin a cat then well done.

Not sure where you think I quoted a couple of months, I never said that - I actually said that it would probably take hundreds of water changes.

I have a decent understanding based on both theoretical and practical experience - I have had a tank in a similar position. Tried 50% weekly water changes for around 6 months (mainly because I didn't have room for a reactor in that set-up) and got absolutely no-where. Started dosing NOPOX and saw instant results. 1L bottle of NOPOX was $27 and will last that tank a couple of years (2ml a day - 500 days if dosed everyday - but more like 800 days as I have dropped back to every second day). Doing 60l changes instead of 20l changes each week cost me an extra $4 a week, $17.33 a month or $104 in that 6 months alone (which I also remind you, saw no results...).

NOPOX was great, however it is tedious dosing every day (or second day) and the cost would go up on larger tanks. So on my next tank, a 1000l setup - once my phosphates started to rise a cheap TLF150 reactor with rowaphos sorted out (and maintained) phosphates within a couple of days. No more dosing, set and leave for months at a time. Easy.

So although I never said to stop water changes, you did say that water changes alone are the cheapest answer which I have had direct experience to suggest that is not true. Not sure why you've got it out for me, I'm clearly just trying to share another opinion for a member based on my real world experience.

 

[newbiereef]

please can we stop with the bickering i asked for advice not to start slanging matches. we all have our ideas on the best way i have taken both lots of advise and done further research and i am using both water changes and phos reactor. water changes will lower it straight away but as stated if its in rocks it will go back up this i understand ( to effectively drop it this way would require large water changes way to often and unless i had easy access to NSW would become to $$$$ ) a phos reactor is a reativly cheep option as once i get it down it will help keep it down

 

[Sam Parker]

my apologies @newbiereef - was never intended to be a pissing contest, we're all just trying to give you the best advice in our own opinions :D

 

[ezza]

And they say men don't get PMS!!!

 

[Polyps]

50% changes over the course of a couple of months.

Ha, ha here we go again. When one slightly disagrees with someone they need to willing to accept a response. No pissing match and to say Ive got it out for you could be considered obnoxious as I could say the exact same about you. To the point, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Either way to more accurately state a claim as you have, shouldn't you at least have the true facts? (Current Phos levels, Past Phos levels, amount of rock, water volume, equipment list, ETC, ETC, ETC.) With this you outright claims worthless and fictional. Furthermore you base your wealth of knowledge that you rightly defend on 6mths trial you completed. Lol. Personally I'm an advocate for lath but I don't go forcing my opinion onto others. FWIW stating your disagree-ance is means for one to contest, however this is my last post regarding this thread and yourself.



@newbiereef, I have no grip with anyone, just wanting YOU to be able to decide on the BEST course of action that YOU decide on for YOUR current aquariums concern based on ACCURATE fact. Good Luck to all.

 

[Sam Parker]

I think you may have taken a selected quote there, I actually said 60-80 50% changes over the course of a couple of months. Ie, a crazy amount of work...

Anyway - I guess I should leave this alone too. I've made my suggestion - been laughed at a few times and told my claims are worthless and fictional. Each to their own I guess!

 

[The Reefuge]

No pissing match and to say Ive got it out for you could be considered obnoxious as I could say the exact same about you.

Hello @Polyps
The purpose of The Reefuge is to allow people to politely debate each other. Reading through the posts, even though Sam had a difference of opinion he was always polite to you. You however did not give him the same treatment in return. In my eyes, that in itself could be considered obnoxious. Please familiarise yourself with the rules here.

You are free to continue this debate (as you should), but please be respectful and speak to people in the same manner you wish to be spoken to.
Thanks.

 

[ezza]

can you please calm the fork down @Polyps ? PLEASE?! you've shared your info. it's done. let's all just chill out! let newbiereef work out what he wants to do mmkay?

 

[newbiereef]

thank you to all i have as i stated earlier made a informed decision. and it is using both ideas water changes and phos reactor.

 

[ezza]

Can I just throw in there that there are these awesome things called commas. They look like this:,,,,,,,,,,. They make it easier for people to read your writing. They make a break in a sentence, such as where you would naturally pause for a breath in the middle of the same point.

I am extremely stressed today and I've had enough of all of it!!

 

[The Reefuge]

Can I just throw in there that there are these awesome things called commas. They look like this:,,,,,,,,,,. They make it easier for people to read your writing. They make a break in a sentence, such as where you would naturally pause for a breath in the middle of the same point.

I am extremely stressed today and I've had enough of all of it!!

The rules I stated above go for you too ezza.

 

[Buddy]

In my experience, GFO is more effective than water changes.
I bought about 50kg of live rock from a tank shut down and loaded it all in to a 4ft tank because I wasn't going to use it for a few months.
I tested the phos on a hanna and it was too high to give a reading.
I did 50% water changes every day for a month and the phos was still too high to read on the hannah.
I got a TLF150 and loaded it with GFO and the phos dropped to 0.96 in one night. BUT the GFO was exhausted after this and needed to be changed straight away.
The second batch of GFO got the phos down below 0.10 and then I was able to manage from there with water changes.

 

[ezza]

The rules I stated above go for you too ezza.

sowwy :( people are dying for no good reason and everyone is just snapping at each other. *cuddleseveryone*

 

[Sam Parker]

In my experience, GFO is more effective than water changes.
I bought about 50kg of live rock from a tank shut down and loaded it all in to a 4ft tank because I wasn't going to use it for a few months.
I tested the phos on a hanna and it was too high to give a reading.
I did 50% water changes every day for a month and the phos was still too high to read on the hannah.
I got a TLF150 and loaded it with GFO and the phos dropped to 0.96 in one night. BUT the GFO was exhausted after this and needed to be changed straight away.
The second batch of GFO got the phos down below 0.10 and then I was able to manage from there with water changes.

Glad to hear I'm not alone. Wow, off the charts!! H713 checker goes to 2.50ppm, wonder what it really got to then!? Not surprised the GFO was exhausted after bringing it down that first chunk. Wonder just how many water changes it would have taken to get it to the same level? We'll never know, but wish we had something to compare with!

 

[holly]

Well that got a little hairy (get it he he he).

If there's phosphate in the rock a very quick chemical reaction will happen within the water almost as soon as you do a water change. Once you change the water, there will be a void of phosphate balance within the water column which will in a way be balanced again by phosphate being drawn out of the rock. Not much will need to be taken out of the rock as you feed the tank and organics find a way of building up regardless (detritus etc)...

GFO will work well as GFO has an extremely high surface area and binds to large amounts of phosphate. It's essentially granulated rusty iron.

Lanthanum also works as it binds to the phos as well and is removed by a skimmer.

Nopox works as it's a form of carbon dosing: it contains methanol (inferior to ethanol) and vinegar.

This information is based on how I have understood what my partner Jeremy knows about how the chemicals we are discussing react (he's an organic chemist and did some water chemistry as part of his degree) and from personal experience reducing my phos with both no pox and GFO.

I personally prefer GFO as it's easier to just set and forget for 6 weeks. Lanthanum would be my next used substance. Nopox I keep for emergencies as the methanol is not great for the fish in the tank.

All the best @newbiereef

 

[ezza]

i love you all *hugs*
my husband came home from being on a plane today. i haven't been well and spent waaaaay too long watching news today. special cuddles and ice cream fixed that.

does lanthanum leave little globules of gelatinous gloop in the tank if your skimmer is inefficient?

 

[newbiereef]

have not noticed it but my skimmer is rated to 1200 ltr :-) slight overkill

 

[firebird]

@newbiereef

Just done a hell of a lot of research on this myself as all of a sudden turf algae in my tank. i am religious with water changes take off40-50l a week in a 171l tank. I'm using Rowaphos . To answer one of your previous questions:

You can use a canister filter for Rowaphos although they say a reactor is better. In the interim I've modded a small eheim filter in the tank which seems to be doing the trick

have a read of this
http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/rowaphos-why-waste-your-money
In a canister filter you sandwich it in between 2 sponges/ I'm kind of using this method at present.

Despite the instructions on the package insert ALWAYS rinse it!!! no matter how you use it.

Start off slowly and gradually add media to avoid shocking your corals as they will have adapted to higher phosphate levels but never use more than twice the amount recommended for your tank.

It is necessary to check when it is depleted-you can't just leave it for ages and hope for the best. What you do is measure the amount of phosphate in the output water . If the effluent reads 0 then the media is still good. If you get a reading then decrease the flow by a quarter or a half and then retest-if still 0 you are fine. If get a reading now then replace. Each tank is different so you may not be able to leave it for a month!

 

[Buddy]

does lanthanum leave little globules of gelatinous gloop in the tank if your skimmer is inefficient?

You will get a white dusting over your glass which is a pain to remove.

 

[ezza]

i occasionally find sausage like lumps of gellied sand around. wasn't sure if this was a product of the lanthanum or not.