Reef Discussion

[MichelleShocked]

Again, sorry for hi-jack :rolleyes but - I've seen the displays of cuttlefish from SA and its like being on an LSD light trip (I'd imagine:p) - its hypnotic. Scientists believe they use these displays to send complex messages and information to eachother. I am guessing that Stomatopods use colors and lightwaves in their displays/communications (obviously not chromataphores) that aren't even in our perception range.
I was going to ask, Kharn: if they don't cost much, how is it you came to pay alot for yours? I realise you can't get them at local LFS and have to pay a collector to acquire them for you, but I just wondered how much they actually DO cost? I've been looking at Peacock Mantis Shrimp and they're possibly the most beautiful things in the sea (can't decide between them or Mandarin Dragonets - its a close thing:D). How would one go about aquiring one other than by accident in purchased LR?

 

[VaultBoy]

They become expensive when you specially order them. I got mine from a fellow reefuge member who got it in a box of live rock so it was free, but if I was to order one then it wouldnt be cheap at all as they are expert hiders and apart from actually finding one then you have to catch it!

I agree about the peacock mantis being the most beautiful thing in the ocean (at least what i have seen). I read somewhere that scientists believe that they use infra red signalling to communicate... Obviously we cant see infra red so we cant see their signals, but with their highly advanced (most complex in the animal kingdom) eyesight they are able to see things we cant!

MichelleShocked I hope this answers your questions!

 

[MichelleShocked]

Yep, thank you :) guess i'm doomed to admire peacocks from afar for now :rolleyes

 

[Kharn]

Kharn: if they don't cost much, how is it you came to pay alot for yours? I realise you can't get them at local LFS and have to pay a collector to acquire them for you, but I just wondered how much they actually DO cost? How would one go about aquiring one other than by accident in purchased LR?

Collectors are the best bet it might take them time but at least they come through. Next best bet is to do what I do...join multiple local sites and watch the sales section like a hawk, mantis shrimps are often for sale and there often not much either depending on there size and color (since most don't recognize species) many people will settle for it to just be taken off there hands if the buyer can arrange transport or pay for freight costs.

I paid a lot for my 2 zebra's mostly because of there size both being around $150-$160 e.a. I got my G.smithii pair for free and paid $50 for my G.graphurus pair (both pairs courtesy of dr_schell) as for Rocky my other G.graphurus he was a hitchhiker on LR so he was free and the G.smithii I most recently acquired cost $45 for freight so the mantis was free (came up from NSW), also picked up Shockwave the Red & Yellow G.falcatus for free from a member off another forum.

Hope this helps...

 

[MichelleShocked]

In a fit of Peacock Mantis passion, I was looking at videos on youtube and it seems that in the US (where they seem fairly common) a popular pass-time appears to be pitting Mantis shrimp against opponents of other species - 1 was between a Mantis and a blue ring octopus. Every 3rd post on there said "How come the blue ring didn't poison the shrimp?".....well....because the shrimp has a shell and the bluey just has a beak.....and the mantis was punching the living shit out of it....then ate it.....
Tho one genius said "Blue rings aren't poisonous".......
Watched a few more like that then ended up in that weird part of youtube.
One video I didn't dare open, though I wanted to, just to make sure it didn't actually show what the heading said: "Microwaving a cat. Banned Video. Unedited"
I didn't dare though because if it was for real, I knew it would just make me cry with impotent rage because the poor cat is sitting there cringing as someone is grabbing it by the scruff of the neck with a microwave in the back ground.
If it's for real, I hope the mother___er who did it dies a violent and prolonged death:mad::mad::mad:
I can help with that.
It seems to me that a disturbing number of people think that because something is an awesome fighter/predator, then its ok to stress it by making it battle other creatures and torture other creatures by knowingly setting them up to be torn to bits. The animal doing it for food and as part of its natural behavior is fine. People getting sick jollies out of seeing helpless things die is not. Its not the action, its the intent behind it that offends me to my core.:mad::(

 

[Kharn]

In a fit of Peacock Mantis passion, I was looking at videos on youtube and it seems that in the US (where they seem fairly common) a popular pass-time appears to be pitting Mantis shrimp against opponents of other species - 1 was between a Mantis and a blue ring octopus. Every 3rd post on there said "How come the blue ring didn't poison the shrimp?".....well....because the shrimp has a shell and the bluey just has a beak.....and the mantis was punching the living shit out of it....then ate it.....
Tho one genius said "Blue rings aren't poisonous".......
Watched a few more like that then ended up in that weird part of youtube.
One video I didn't dare open, though I wanted to, just to make sure it didn't actually show what the heading said: "Microwaving a cat. Banned Video. Unedited"
I didn't dare though because if it was for real, I knew it would just make me cry with impotent rage because the poor cat is sitting there cringing as someone is grabbing it by the scruff of the neck with a microwave in the back ground.
If it's for real, I hope the mother___er who did it dies a violent and prolonged death:mad::mad::mad:
I can help with that.
It seems to me that a disturbing number of people think that because something is an awesome fighter/predator, then its ok to stress it by making it battle other creatures and torture other creatures by knowingly setting them up to be torn to bits. The animal doing it for food and as part of its natural behavior is fine. People getting sick jollies out of seeing helpless things die is not. Its not the action, its the intent behind it that offends me to my core.:mad::(

I have seen many a video on youtube of mantis shrimps killing other creatures in a pure sense of attempting to make the mantis shrimp fight its not a nice thing to do I agree and it only further extends the myths of mantis shrimp being the absolute most evil thing in marine aquariums (which they are NOT).

That video of the Peacock mantis shrimp killing a blue ringed octopus was done for scientific research purposes, Dr. Roy Caldwell made the video and the research was exactly about what was happening, how is the mantis capable of killing a very poisonous octopus when the octopus like all of us know need only reach 1 tentacle out and its stuck like glue to its target, How is the mantis capable of dealing with the deadly toxin too since either it WAS bitten during the confrontation OR during consumption (when it devoured the blue ring) one way or another it would of come in contact with the deadly toxin. That was the purpose of the video.

There are hundreads of thousands of videos on youtube where people force animals to fight one another for the mere fact of watching them fight, I myself fall into this vicinity myself...hence why I am struggling to comment emotionally. Having said that...I ain't about to go and upload the microwaving of a cat OR forcing my stomatopods to fight in some sort of loser takes all battle...however I am guilty for feeding live food to my predatory pets to gouge and interest first hand up close of just how there amazing mechanics work! If people hate me for that well I am sorry I won't change...:rolleyes

In addition to the comments you made about various animals being forced to fight on youtube many of those are starved before hand to ensure they will fight...and kill there opponent so it gets a feed.

The japanese have a show on TV where they force animals to fight...commentry everything like a rugby game....THAT is SICK! :mad: (as in disgustingly disturbing!) you can sometimes find the fights on youtube.

 

[MichelleShocked]

Yeah, I have no issue with feeding animals live food. I used to buy goldfish to feed my oscar until the petshop lady fluffed up like an old chook and shrilled at me: "I know what you're using them for and I'm not selling you any more to feed to your....your...monster!!".
I was tempted to say "What? You think God sprinkles fish flakes up and down the Amazon every morning?"
I read the blue-ring vs mantis description and was aware that it was a scientific experiment. I just think if its for science, why post it so a large population of morons can get their jollies. That's not what science is about, is it? Once again, i dont take issue with the need to learn about the blue-ring's venom. I just dont think the people watching it are watching for scientific interest and therefore its encouraging them in their enjoyment of cruelty and possibly to set up their own "experiments".
"Nature red in tooth and claw", so said Tennyson and I fully accept that. Its just the way of the natural world. We cant put human judgements onto animals - which reminds me: has anyone been to Vic Hislops Shark "show" in Hervey Bay? I went about 10 yrs ago and it made me shudder - sharks demonised as "evil" and "savage killers". I was horrified at the outright slaughter he had committed in his personal war against the shark species:mad::mad:
Anyway, as I was saying: it irritates me when people characterise, say, cats as "cruel" because they think cats "torture" their live food before eating it. Cruelty is purely a human condition. Animals just do what they must to remain alive for as long as they can - if that means honing their hunting skills or teaching the next generation practise and show and tell, then they do. If those animals are in our care, then we must either give them the opportunity, or allow them, to capture and/or eat their food as close to naturally as we can.
But causing another sentient being to die, not for food, but simply because we think its entertaining is wrong, in my book.
And WTF is it with the Japanese and torture, anyway?????:eek