Reef Discussion

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
What's The Going Rate ($) For A Frag Of Pink Mille?
As per subject ... what's the going rate of pink Mille in a frag?

Not the one as pictured ... perhaps just a stag or two.

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potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
about $45 for one from Sustainable reefs I'd say
Thanks @Sam Parker

I dare to ask this stupid question . is there a difference between pink Mille frag from Sustainable reefs and pink Mille frag from someone's tank (wild-collected, non sustainable)?

I mean both are pink Mille? perhaps there's difference in coloring and hardiness?
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
4,802
2,397
Geelong
Few differences, well, others will have an opinion - but this is mine:

Sustainable frags (especially the second gen ones) are more likely to keep the colour that they come as rather than slowly fade off to a boring brown stick that I find a lot of wild ones do. They are also very hardy compared the rolling the dice on wild collected pieces. Just my opinion though :)
 

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
Few differences, well, others will have an opinion - but this is mine:

Sustainable frags (especially the second gen ones) are more likely to keep the colour that they come as rather than slowly fade off to a boring brown stick that I find a lot of wild ones do. They are also very hardy compared the rolling the dice on wild collected pieces. Just my opinion though :)
Nah, that's cool Sam .. I appreciate your opinion ... everyone has theirs .. cheers mate
 

thepubenator

Competitions Guy
Nov 4, 2011
696
538
i tend to disagree with Sam in this instance for the below reasons

1. Sustainable reefs conditions are not similar to one that we have in tanks
2. they are typically cut and glued, have not seen many encrusted frags from them

milli frags from ppl tanks which come from colonies that have been in captivity for years , in similar conditions eg light have already done their adapting. look at a yellow terra they all turn green under T5 and LED after a week or so.
 

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
i tend to disagree with Sam in this instance for the below reasons

1. Sustainable reefs conditions are not similar to one that we have in tanks
2. they are typically cut and glued, have not seen many encrusted frags from them

milli frags from ppl tanks which come from colonies that have been in captivity for years , in similar conditions eg light have already done their adapting. look at a yellow terra they all turn green under T5 and LED after a week or so.
Thanks @thepubenator so if I understand your perspective correctly ... Sustainable reefs frags haven't done the adapting bits hence in your example of Yellow Terra, when you pop them under your tank (say running LED or T5), the natural yellow color is sustained?

I mean people paying big bucks for these SR frags and they sold out fairly quick; I'm sure there's a reason for one ..
 

thepubenator

Competitions Guy
Nov 4, 2011
696
538
look at how they have their tanks set up compared to how the average reefer has theirs set up. outdoors, sun light vs indoor and artificial light.

And yes the price is VERY high on some pieces. I saw tiny frags of birdsnest the other day for sale for $55! arguement was its second generation but my birdsnest must be 5th gen + by now and in tanks for over 10 years and would be lucky to sell for $10!
 

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
look at how they have their tanks set up compared to how the average reefer has theirs set up. outdoors, sun light vs indoor and artificial light.

And yes the price is VERY high on some pieces. I saw tiny frags of birdsnest the other day for sale for $55! arguement was its second generation but my birdsnest must be 5th gen + by now and in tanks for over 10 years and would be lucky to sell for $10!
that begs the question where everyone would ask .. why would one purchase a tiny frags for 5 times the price of tank-hardened birdsnest ... understand that yours is "non" sustainable ...

provided optimal water params, optimal flow and optimal lighting, why can't the "non" sustainable one pop?

or am I still missing the point?
 

thepubenator

Competitions Guy
Nov 4, 2011
696
538
missing the point, sustainable reef is the companies name. my birdnest frag is actually more "sustainable/tank hardened" then theirs as it has a decade of lineage not a year....
 

thepubenator

Competitions Guy
Nov 4, 2011
696
538
dont get me wrong some of their stuff is nice and worth the $$$ but not something common like a birds nest or a pink milli. buy truely tank hardened frags for less than half the price from hobbiest in your area.
 

slin1977

Member
Jul 13, 2011
3,476
1,661
Sydney
Yes, my yellow terra has turned green in my care. I had the same sort of things happen back in the day when I was testing led set ups and doing the experiments , you see it is possible to shift the colour clades of your coral over time by subjecting them to different spectrum peaks. Not all tanks will be the same , if you dose boron for instance you will find a improvement in your red clades of sps. You may not get that red with led but it may happen for you under T5 without the dosing.
Get what I'm saying here? Plenty of ways to manipulate the coral garden.
Just got to know how to be a gardener....
As for the sustainable reefs stuff , they. Have paid for a collecting license for the purpose of sustaining a business both in supplying corals and creating thousands of frags from their broodstock. The effort requires remuneration to run such an enterprise.
The choice becomes whether the consumer wishes to pay for such an endeavour or pays for a wild collected fresh piece of reef or chooses to get a frag from a hobbiest.
At each price point there is a factor....
Business need to turn a profit through handling an item or hobbiest passing on a frag with no profit attached.
 
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Savage Henry

Member
Feb 2, 2015
653
254
Potatocouch, this is why it is good to buy frags from fellow reefers and also why to buy corals from people pulling down a tank as long as the tank has been established (and not a crash and burn event!).

Bear in mind though the difference between buying a fresh pink frag at the LFS that has come from the wild versus a frag from a sustainable propagation company (if there is such a thing as sustainably grown marine produce given the current news about intensive prawn farms and salmon farms) versus a frag from your fellow reefer A who grew there lot from a frag from reefer B and so on. Also bear in mind the corals (and fish) from the wild might die early in your tank for reasons unrelated to the care you've given them, but due to how they were handled and what they were exposed to between collection and the LFS shop.

Some will say not to buy from reefers because their corals/fish might be infected with this or that, but I consider an LFS is more like an international airport where the corals are exposed to anything and everything and where livestock is kept intensively where disease can spread rapidly. I do recall some time ago when I visited a few aquarium stores and all of them had white spot infections. One of them at least told me they weren't selling stock at that moment due to the presence of the infection. On the other hand, I am cautious of shops where the fish look too healthy cause I reckon they might be using treatments that keep the stock looking good and so when you take the stock home it is no longer receiving the treatment and so catches diseases from your tank or becomes affected by a disease it already had.
 

Coralfarmer

Member
Jul 20, 2015
48
27
hmm.....interesting.....
we wholesale frags to the lfs, they put whatever price they think is fair on them then you the consumer chooses wether or not you think its a fair price, if our product is/was no good nobody would buy them.

you may not like my company, mabe you prefer someone else idk , what I do know is I offer a commercially viable alternative to wild harvested coral, that's it.
and to be honest the aquarium trade is not our end goal, but that's another story.

I suppose you have to ask yourself why you feel 50 bucks is excessive for a frag, I personally think paying 300+ for a single ric is excessive or 600 for a "gold" euphillia is ridiculous, or 350 for a tiny scolly that glows red and green under pure actinic, not to mention dropping thousands of dollars on a single fish only to have it up and die.....

different strokes for different folks I guess...
 

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
hmm.....interesting.....
we wholesale frags to the lfs, they put whatever price they think is fair on them then you the consumer chooses wether or not you think its a fair price, if our product is/was no good nobody would buy them.

you may not like my company, mabe you prefer someone else idk , what I do know is I offer a commercially viable alternative to wild harvested coral, that's it.
and to be honest the aquarium trade is not our end goal, but that's another story.

I suppose you have to ask yourself why you feel 50 bucks is excessive for a frag, I personally think paying 300+ for a single ric is excessive or 600 for a "gold" euphillia is ridiculous, or 350 for a tiny scolly that glows red and green under pure actinic, not to mention dropping thousands of dollars on a single fish only to have it up and die.....

different strokes for different folks I guess...
@Coralfarmer = Sustainable Reef , yes?

As you said different strokes for different folks ... to quote what you said "if our product is/was no good nobody would buy them" ... some may find this ludicrous, some may not .. the same to those that buy rics, euphyllias, scollies, zoanthids, rbtas and fish too.

I didn't notice any name-calling or bad-mouthing your company; their 2 cents are their opinions and by no means they means any disrespect to you or your company.
 

Coralfarmer

Member
Jul 20, 2015
48
27
I never said there was any bad mouthing or name calling....
Was just putting some perspective on the $50 frags....
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
4,802
2,397
Geelong
It's a great age we live in currently where we have these options. Personally I've found sharing amongst reefers has slowed down and I'm fairly sure the selection and volume from the wild we have access to at the moment will drop or stop.

All those points aside, I love the sustainable reef frags, I love wild caught stuff and I also love sharing frags with reefers.

Can't we all just get along :)
 

Aspidites

Member
Dec 1, 2012
600
209
South lake
One of our LFS in Perth had Sustainable reef frags for $65 and up. All very good quality but small. Think I will hook up with some locals and raid their tanks!