Reef Discussion

[Churchy]

Hi All

I think my fish have/had ich. I have lost 4 fish now even though I have treated the water, and done plenty of water changes....

I'm treating with tri-sulfur tablets, and have done multiple treatments but my powder blue tang doesn't seem to be getting any better. Any ideas?

Pic attached too.

Thanks in advance.

 

[firebird]

Check with Salty ( I think he used or knows of some antibiotic to treat ich) but have a read of this http://www.thereefuge.com.au/board/wiki/marine-ich-cryptocaryon-irritans/
usual methods are copper/hyposalinity/tank transfer to treat ich
Can't use copper though in a display tank and needs to be used according to manufacturers directions

 

[Churchy]

Yeah, I read this, but of course dont have a hospital tank....

 

[chimaera]

Wow that is the worst case of ich I have ever seen, poor thing is covered! You need to quarantine it asap and follow on of the methods in the link that firebird posted. DT needs to be fish free for 8 weeks at least before reintroducing.

Ich is a real bitch, wish someone would invent a proper cure or treatment for it.

 

[Churchy]

Yeah I know! Only a wrasse left in the tank now, but he isnt affected by it...

I'll have to see what I can do for a qt tomorrow.

 

[firebird]

if you can't QT I've read something about feeding the fish metronidazole( flagyl) in its favourite food - not guaranteed though and I don't know dosage-would probably be on the side of the bottle. problem is that could affect bacterial populations in the DT

 

[MagicJ]

Churchy, nice looking powder blue but that would have to be the worse case of Cryptocaryon that I have seen.

But, TriSulfa is an antibiotic that is used for the treatment of conditions that are caused by bacteria and will have no effect on Cryptocaryon, which is a
protozoan. By using this product you are likely to have severely affected the beneficial bacteria within the tank which will take some time to recover. The current low fish stocks will have assisted your cause but I would be checking for any ammonia and/or nitrites.

With an outbreak this severe my guess is that the gills will have suffered some permanent damage but hopefully I am wrong.

I am no expert, but I would suggest that you need to hit this hard and quick if you are to save the fish - on that basis I would, somewhat hesitantly, recommend a copper based treatment. The problem with this is that copper is harmful to fish so you will need to follow the directions closely - too low a dose and the treatment will not work, too high a dose and you could kill the fish. This treatment must be done in a seperate tank which will not be able to be used for inverts/corals again.

Have a read of this article for some good information http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[MagicJ]

Yeah I know! Only a wrasse left in the tank now, but he isnt affected by it...

It probably is, you just can't see it .....

 

[chimaera]

It probably is, you just can't see it .....

Agree - ich isn't always visible. The wrasse should be treated as if it were infected too.

 

[malau]

dont have to get a real tank. get any plastic container which u can measure the volume (if u use copper) will do the job

 

[Churchy]

Thanks all for the help! Good news is, the Tang is looking much healthier now. The dots/spots have reduced significantly and things seem to be getting better by the day.

I dropped the salinity level down, and changed over 240L through the week - along with the previous treatments of tri-sulfur tablets, I think we are definitely heading in the right direction. The skin of the Tang is nice and smooth again, the little black developed on the lower fins have gone.

The Wrasse is still cruising around like nothing has changed, but I have noticed it cleaning the Tang which hasn't happened before, so that is cool.

Fingers crossed they keep getting better, I'll change another 120L this week and now slowly raise the salinity back up.

Bummer I have to wait another 8 weeks to add new fish though!!!

:)

 

[MagicJ]

Good news Churchy , but please keep a close eye on things.

Unfortunately, I am not sure that you have solved the problem. The TriSulfa would not have had any effect at all; not sure what you lowered the salinity to, but the short time involved would not have done much; water changes would not have much effect as the cysts generally release of a night time and would head straight to the sand bed where they split to subsequently infect another host; and the wrasse, which I assume is a cleaner wrasse, cannot clean off the cysts which are imbedded in the skin.

Hopefully, the fish have developed an immunity but, I suspect that this may be just part of the life cycle and will re-appear in the not to distant future.

Keep us informed.

Cheers

 

[Churchy]

MagicJ...... I don't like your response!!! :(

Hopefully it doesn't return!

 

[MagicJ]

MagicJ...... I don't like your response!!! :(

Hopefully it doesn't return!

Sorry mate, give me a dislike if you like :eek

All I am trying to say is that it is unlikely that you have killed off the Cryptocaryon with what you have done.

Unlike the majority of marine diseases, this protozoan has been studied in some depth and so the science behind its life cycle is pretty well known. It still causes hundreds of millions of dollars in damage in the food fish industry - they have a lot to gain by finding a 'cure' but have been unable to so.

Hopefully, you have been able to - time will tell.

 

[Churchy]

Haha, So potentially, I could have developed a cure, and thus make myself a billionaire???

 

[MichelleShocked]

Hi :)
Just thought I'd add my two cents for future reference.
With fish-keeping, salt and fresh, you aren't actually aiming to protect the fish from disease because in the correct water conditions, the fish's naturally produced mucus and immune systems can deflect all the diseases/parasites that are inherent in all waters.
So what you must aim for is keeping the water. As observed by a well known ichthyologist (whose name escapes me at present), we shouldn't be called "Fish keepers", we should be called "Water keepers". Once you have the water right, the fish cannot help but flourish.
More to the point, you need to keep the water at the optimum parameters each fish specifically needs to best produce the protections it needs.
This is why you can't just chuck any old fish together in together - you need to make sure each fish can flourish in the parameters you can provide. If the fish keeps getting diseased, the parameters or some aspect of the water is not to its optimum needs.
Community tanks are actually a LOT more complicated than most people realize for this reason.
Either you have to keep several fish species that are from the same water parameters or you keep one type of a specific species.
Trying to match ALL the parameters for a variety of fish from a variety of environments gets very complicated indeed.
Just thought I'd remind people that its not the fish that's suddenly become diseased, its the water that's let the fish's defenses down (in most cases) and that the best protection is to maintain the water as the first line defense.

 

[MagicJ]

Potentially, yes :)

 

[SpikeHoover&Rocky]

Hi All

I think my fish have/had ich. I have lost 4 fish now even though I have treated the water, and done plenty of water changes....

I'm treating with tri-sulfur tablets, and have done multiple treatments but my powder blue tang doesn't seem to be getting any better. Any ideas?

Pic attached too.

Thanks in advance.

OK. I recently had Ich through my tank. For me it was super quick and had no chance to move fish so lost my 2 clowns.

My Coral Goby is still in there. I noticed White spots a week ago and this is what I have done. Crush up some fresh Garlic (1 Clove) in a press add in my case 1 frozen fish eggs food square and 1 tablespoon of the tank water. mixed it all together in a morter and peasel (not sure on spelling... lol) to make a paste. Add some more tank water (about a tablespoon) to make a liquid. Put in fridge over night. twice a day I shake the container and put about a 1/4 of a teaspoon into the tank. he smashes it and loves it.

He is looking much better and seems to be recovering well. I have also added 2 peppermint shrimp to tank. As soon as I walk near the tank with the little jar he moves to the spot where i put the food in within a flash.

Not saying this will work for you but my tank is loving it. and is cheaper than buying Medic (main ingredient garlic).

So my plan moving forward is feed them this concoction a few times a week after 10 days of only this. I will let you know but so far for me is working well.

 

[Ian G]

Good news Churchy , but please keep a close eye on things.

Unfortunately, I am not sure that you have solved the problem. The TriSulfa would not have had any effect at all; not sure what you lowered the salinity to, but the short time involved would not have done much; water changes would not have much effect as the cysts generally release of a night time and would head straight to the sand bed where they split to subsequently infect another host; and the wrasse, which I assume is a cleaner wrasse, cannot clean off the cysts which are imbedded in the skin.

Hopefully, the fish have developed an immunity but, I suspect that this may be just part of the life cycle and will re-appear in the not to distant future.

Keep us informed.

Cheers

Unfortunately this is quite correct. Trisulphur has no proven effect on eradicating marine ich and hyposalinity treatment requires precise salinity levels be maintained on a continuous basis for an absolute minimum of 4 weeks, the approximate life cycle of the parasite. It also requires lowering and raising salinity levels gradually.

The good news is that hyposanity if done correctly, works to eradicate this parasite in most cases. I can guarantee that unless you've stumbled upon new science, you will soon have another outbreak. I know it sucks but that's nature.