Reef Discussion

[potatocouch]

I'm particularly interested in getting Red Ruby Dragonette in my tank one day but wanted to do more research about it before I do so.

I understand that these species is practically a mandarin, which in nature only eat pods, if am not mistaken, it's copepods and not amphipods due to its small mouth.

My questions are:
How would I know if my tank can sustain it? Is it based on how stable the tank is? Is it based on observation on the wall tank after the lights are all out and pods come to play and occupy the wall tank?

In short, I don't know whether I have pods or not but at the same time, I don't want to eliminate the possibility of pods. So, does it work like this: only when you see pods on your wall tank, then you're okay to get Red Ruby Dragonette?

BTW, how common/rare is this red ruby goby dragonette in Australia? Do you see them often in LFS?

 

[Dean Lovett]

Bottom dwellers of this nature are more likely to graze passively. If they see something they'll take it but chances are they won't break their back looking something to eat.

With fish like this, they graze all day rather than feeding at a set time the most important thing is having enough live rock for the fish to graze on. Second to that would be a mature tank. A tank whose ecology and macrosystem is self sustaining.

Observing the population of pods on your glass of a night is a very crude test so I wouldn't reccomend that be your test.

With a fish like this, I'd say, if you're in doubt - don't get it.

 

[MagicJ]

I'm not sure why, but there were quite a few of these available a few months ago - maybe someone was trying a new collection area? But, the supply now appears to have dried up somewhat - again, not sure why but there has been some anecdotal evidence that they do not survive well in captivity.

The key to survival would be training them to eat frozen/prepared foods - in most cases, this would take a lot of time and dedication.

 

[Buddy]

@Agent M

 

[curly747]

In short, I don't know whether I have pods or not but at the same time, I don't want to eliminate the possibility of pods. So, does it work like this: only when you see pods on your wall tank, then you're okay to get Red Ruby Dragonette?

To see if you have pods just shine a light in your tank after dark and you should see them on the sand and the rocks. They are quite obvious. I once had a lot of pods and now have none that i can see. I think my six line wrasse ate them all. So i am not sure if you can rely on a tank population of pods as a sustainable and reliable source of food. You would want your fish to eat other things as well.

 

[potatocouch]

The key to survival would be training them to eat frozen/prepared foods - in most cases, this would take a lot of time and dedication.

@MagicJ the only training that I can think of is a breeder box; so there isn't any distraction, just the fish and Hikari Marine S or frozen mysis/brine shrimp. The logical thinking is, if it's hungry, it would eat and considering the only food supply in that box is just pellets/mysis/brine shrimp, logically it would eat it .... I think I am just repeating myself :p but then, I don't know if fish can be logical or not ... would they rather starve to death just because it can't find pods to eat? Would they be that stubborn? I mean the food is there just in front on him, readily to be munched ....

To see if you have pods just shine a light in your tank after dark and you should see them on the sand and the rocks. They are quite obvious. I once had a lot of pods and now have none that i can see. I think my six line wrasse ate them all. So i am not sure if you can rely on a tank population of pods as a sustainable and reliable source of food. You would want your fish to eat other things as well.

@curly747 yes, I am planning to do this in the next couple of days, but I can't rely on live supply pods because I don't have visibility nor control over this, so I would prefer to "train" any of the inhabitants to eat frozen/prepared foods. I also have Tamarin wrasse, which eats pods ... so even if I do have pods, it will compete with him.

Bottom dwellers of this nature are more likely to graze passively. If they see something they'll take it but chances are they won't break their back looking something to eat. With fish like this, they graze all day rather than feeding at a set time the most important thing is having enough live rock for the fish to graze on. Second to that would be a mature tank. A tank whose ecology and macrosystem is self sustaining. Observing the population of pods on your glass of a night is a very crude test so I wouldn't reccomend that be your test. With a fish like this, I'd say, if you're in doubt - don't get it.

Thanks @Dean Lovett

I'm not sure why, but there were quite a few of these available a few months ago - maybe someone was trying a new collection area? But, the supply now appears to have dried up somewhat - again, not sure why but there has been some anecdotal evidence that they do not survive well in captivity.

So, looks like it's a bit unique ... either because it is difficult to sustain in captivity or it is just plain hard to get in the wild.

I look forward @Agent M response on this ... would the method of putting the new captivity in the breeder box for approx. 1 week and training him with frozen/prepared food proven to work? He doesn't bury himself under substrate when sleeping, does he? so, he wouldn't need a substrate inside the box. Eventually, he'll be released into the DT when he is ready.

 

[MagicJ]

the only training that I can think of is a breeder box; so there isn't any distraction, just the fish and Hikari Marine S or frozen mysis/brine shrimp. The logical thinking is, if it's hungry, it would eat and considering the only food supply in that box is just pellets/mysis/brine shrimp, logically it would eat it .... I think I am just repeating myself :p but then, I don't know if fish can be logical or not ... would they rather starve to death just because it can't find pods to eat? Would they be that stubborn? I mean the food is there just in front on him, readily to be munched ....

A large breeder box might be OK, just, but a seperate QT would be much better. A box located at the top of the tank, under the bright lights with no cover, is not the best environment to try to acclimatise to captivity.

Your feeding theory is OK, but...

You know it is food you are putting in the tank because it says it on the packet - this fish, which a week ago was swimming around out in the wild, cannot read - this 'stuff' you are putting in the tank does not look like food to it; it does not move like food to it; and it does not taste like food to it. So, yes, they will often starve rather than eat the stuff you are providing to it - they do not recognise it as food. You would probably need to start off with live foods - brine shrimp/black worms etc - and then wean it onto prepared foods.

They don't bury under the substrate to sleep but your wrasse will be an ongoing issue - any food that you provide for the dragonet will be gone before it has a chance to eat.

 

[ReeferRob]

I'm not sure why, but there were quite a few of these available a few months ago - maybe someone was trying a new collection area? But, the supply now appears to have dried up somewhat - again, not sure why but there has been some anecdotal evidence that they do not survive well in captivity.

The key to survival would be training them to eat frozen/prepared foods - in most cases, this would take a lot of time and dedication.

There were a lot of them available out of Kenya a while back and they were dirt cheap so everyone bought them up. They were about 1/2 the normal price, dunno why.

All of the ones that I've seen are markedly smaller than regular Scooter blennies or Mandarins. Try getting a female red Scooter, it's damn near impossible here. :(

 

[Franklin Dattein]

I have a slightly different opinion to most answers. Just the fact the tank has pods, doesn't mean it will meet the Dragonet demands for food.
The tank needs to promote reproduction of pods, at a pace that meets the feeding demands.
That can be achieved in a number of ways, including large amounts of live rocks, refugium, avoiding other pod eaters, over feeding, etc.

I also agree that relying on pods isn't a good idea, as many external factors can reduce the pod population significantly. Training it to eat prepared foods is ideal. The training process is also fun, specially if you are up for challenge, it gives peace of mind and is also gratifying.

Here is the method I have been using, for quite some time, to train Mandarins:
http://reefcube.tumblr.com/post/37365789104/dragonetfeedingtraining

 

[potatocouch]

Thanks @Franklin Dattein @ReeferRob

I'm thinking a bit further here as to what @MagicJ mentioned earlier to use a quarantine tank, as opposed to using breeder box ... size and close proximity to the light is probably the issue here.

If I am to get another pico tank (20L) volume and stuff in 1 or 2 piece of small live rocks from the main tank, do I still need to cycle this Pico tank? I would see this as a 100% WC but I could be wrong, then in goes the training for the dragonette.

The only drawback I can see with this is that since it has bigger room to play with, it is probably harder to control whether it has eaten the prepared frozen/pellets.

 

[the cichlid kid]

Is a product like this an option?

http://reefnutrition.com/tigger_pods.php

Is this (or something like it) available in Aus?

 

[Agent M]

I look forward @Agent M response on this ... would the method of putting the new captivity in the breeder box for approx. 1 week and training him with frozen/prepared food proven to work? He doesn't bury himself under substrate when sleeping, does he? so, he wouldn't need a substrate inside the box. Eventually, he'll be released into the DT when he is ready.

It will take longer than a week but yes I think its the way to go. Look up the thread The Mandarin Challenge, it covers pretty much everything you need to know.

Don't worry about pods, they will eat any they can find however they need to be taught to eat frozen foods as the majority of tanks can't sustain a dragonet on pods alone. They do need a consistent schedule of feeding as they lose weight fast.