Reef Discussion

[scottme]

Hi all,

In the space of 12 hours I have lost:
1 x small Blue Tang
1 x Med Blue Tang
1 x Chromis

I know it's the sad part of reef keeping, especially at the beginning, but it certainly is a test of commitment.

The tank is now about 4 weeks old and has about 60 kg+ of LR which was transferred from my previous tank, which seemed fine and mostly healthy (apart from high Nitrates)

It's a 6 x 1.5 x 1.5 tank plus an approx 60L sump and 80L refugium. I'm using about 150g of NPX Biopellets in a reactor and have plenty of flow in the DT, plus a smallish amount of macro in the refugium. Using bare bottom and algae levels are OK with some higher levels of green algae on the bottom. Also just started dosing Randy's Recipe part 1 a and b (50 / 30 ml/day). I was running my Marine Sources skimmer about 8h/ day, but am running full time now.

So, to the mystery. Going from memory, my stats as of last night were:
Nitrate: 40ppm
Nitrite: 0
Ammonium: 0
Phosphates: 0
Temp: 26
Salinity: 1.022
ph: ~8.4
kh: 11dkh
Calcium: 440ppm

Certainly nothing jumped out as being alarming. The ph is a little higher than I have had normally, but not off the chart. 3 weeks ago I added a 6 Line Wrasse that totally disappeared after a few days and 2 weeks ago I added a Coral Banded shrimp and it also seems to have vanished after a few days. There are also (hopefully still) 2 small Oscellaris Clowns, 8 Chromis, 1 large Fox Face, 1 x Royal Dottyback, 1 x Fairy Wrasse, 1 x Multicolour Wrasse and a Peppermint Shrimp, plus some very healthy large bristleworm hitch-hikers, and also a bunch of soft corals.

I noticed the larger Tang rubbing on some rock and seemingly desperate in getting the Peppermint shrimp to clean of parasites. They certainly looked quite a bit icky at death but not too bad beforehand. My Foxface also seems to have acquired some small black spots which is a worry, plus lost her/his appetite somewhat. The other fish generally seem OK, and all the corals seem normal and open. I added a few air stones in the refugium to bring the ph down a little.

I have a small 40L tank on standby but only want to use it as last resort due to transfer stress.

So beyond big water changes, any suggestions for cause / fixes?

 

[macca_75]

I don't want to flame you, but it sounds like to much to soon. You tank has/is undergoing a (mini ??) cycle. Adding another fish at 1 week?

What test kits are you using (goes to the accuracy of them).

Phos at 0 is very unlikely. Also ideally Phos and Nitrates need to be "in balance". Nitrate at 40ppm is very high.

Also, do you have any previous readings and dates (goes to the consistency of the tank rather than a "point in time". If you have already begun large and frequent water changes your reading are somewhat artificial as they may have been higher when the issue struck.

My advice from here on for what it's worth...

Continue with frequent water changes from a known good quality. Keep testing (every couple of days) and try end ensure "consistent" water that is slowly trending to where you want it. Phos = 0 = your kit most likely isn't giving you an accurate reading. Plenty of apps available to keep track of this.

List your test kits you use with the results.

Black spots on the Fox face indicates stress to me. Maybe also try a shorter (or no) lighting period every second day to help keep stress levels down. The corals will be OK.

Maybe slowly bring Salinity up (top off with salt water manually a few times, keep measuring, etc. Aim to bring it to about 1.024 over a few days or longer. 1.022 isn't dangerously low so don't stress about it. Slow changes is the key.

 

[scottme]

I'm using API test kits. The readings have been reasonably consistent, but ph had been trending more around 8.0. I try to keep salinity at about 1.021 for compatibility with my LFS, who advocate a lower level for fish health. Yes, maybe it was a little early to add new fish so soon after a major move, but everything was looking pretty good at the time. Also, I'm told that there was a batch of 6 Line Wrasses that were imported about the time I bought mine that had a high mortality rate.

Phosphates are not exactly zero (obviously), but are in the first band on the API chart. My Nitrates before the move have always been quite high without seemingly much bother to the inhabitants, that's why I moved to the larger tank sooner than I was planning. I am trying a moderated amount of biopellets to hopefully help bring Nitrates down further still. The Nitrates have been below 40ppm since I moved tanks.

I have only had very moderate water changes since the tank started. It may well have been some dodgy water in the last water change, but nothing is really jumping out in testing.

 

[macca_75]

Thanks.

API kits are pretty well known to give "ballpark" readings. As your trying to fix an issue can I suggest you either invest in better quality kits or maybe reach out to other members on this forum who might be local to you and able to test your water (where are you anyway??)

Accurate readings are the first step. Salifert and generally accepted as good kits, RedSea Pro also have a good rep. The Hanna eggs are good for Phos. I also have the Ca and Alk eggs and like them, but some people find the Ca egg hard to use for consistent results.

Try 20% water changes weekly to start (or even better if you have time/patience do 10% twice a week), either 1/2 the lighting period or skip every 2nd day to try and reduce feeding (ambient room lighting is OK). Keep the skimmer going. Key here is fixing it through slowly - no big drastic changes that will further shock the system.

 

[macca_75]

PS - With Test kits the age old saying "You get what you pay for" rings pretty true.

 

[scottme]

I agree. At the start, I thought the Marisys filter was a good idea on a 4ft tank...

I'm sure it's not the last mistake I'll make.

I have a ph meter that I need to calibrate.

 

[scottme]

I am convincing myself more and more that black ich is the killer here. I'll post a pic of my Rabbit Fish (Foxy), but it all makes sense. lots of work to do :(.

 

[dino]

My guess is the high nitrates, with bio-pellets is likely to have caused a bacterial bloom. When the skimmer was off, oxygen level dropped and fish died from asphyxia.
A good skimmer is a must when using bio-pellets. Keep it running 24/7, and if your tank is heavily stocked, you should have a spare skimmer, or at least a spare skimmer pump on hand.

 

[scottme]

I think that low oxygen levels may have contributed a little, but I think the main issue was an undetected (denial perhaps?) of ich infection. There is only a small amount of pellets and I'm now running the skimmer 24x7. I also have a spare Berlin skimmer just in case.

The very sad thing is that the larger Blue Tang was trying desperately to get my Peppermint Shrimp to clean the infection off in the days before death. I look forward to getting more Blue Tangs, they're very interesting and intelligent, but they are very punishing on lazy / inexperienced aquarists.

Here's my foxy - I am guessing this is black ich? My multicolour Wrasse seems to have white ick, but I don't know if it's the same infection.

And here is my Wrasse - those apparent white spots on the fish are real

 

[curly747]

wow thats looks terrible. I feel sorry for you. Changing tanks is a tricky time and i guess the stress and maybe a mini cycle might have made them susceptible to ... whatever it is. Wish i had the magic answer for you.

 

[ReeferRob]

Keep some seaweed in there for the Foxface, those black spots will disappear in time. They need a certain type of snail as an intermediate host to complete their life cycle. Without it, they will die and be gone forever. I had a Yellow tang years ago that had it and it cleared up on its own.

 

[scottme]

Thanks for the comments. Quite odd and encouraging , but the foxfire and the wrasse seem much better today and the other fish seem fine. I always keep some nori in the tank and have added some extra ocean nutrition stuff too.. I think the fox face is a strong fish and has been through a lot. The disappearing white spots on the wrasse are a concern on an ongoing basis though.

 

[scottme]

In the last few days, the tank has been looking pretty good. No white spots on any fish, No apparent spots on the fox face. I come down this morning and find one of the clowns in the overflow, which was OK. It's clown friend seemed rather concerned. So I managed to rescue the clown from the overflow and was having a look around and spotted some colour in some detritus - turns out my Royal Dottyback has joined its former tank mates in the great reef in the sky. And the fox face has her little black spots back. Still not totally sure of the problem - must be general New Tank Disorder. :(

6 months of a 4ft tank with a dodgy Franken-Marisys bodgey sump and Aquis wet dry canister filter with all the stuff you're not really supposed to have (e.g. bioballs) + sky high nitrates and scary gravel = 0 fish loss and all fish thriving

3 weeks of a 6ft tank with a real sump and refugium + more LR + reasonable nitrates + biopellets + bare bottom = 4 KIA + 2 MIA.

 

[holly]

My guess is the high nitrates, with bio-pellets is likely to have caused a bacterial bloom. When the skimmer was off, oxygen level dropped and fish died from asphyxia.
A good skimmer is a must when using bio-pellets. Keep it running 24/7, and if your tank is heavily stocked, you should have a spare skimmer, or at least a spare skimmer pump on hand.

I'm with you Dino. Additionally, if there is ICH in there then tank transfer is the way to go. If done correctly it is not as stressful as people make out. I used red sea stress (the blue stuff), matched PH, salinity and temp and the fish had no issues being transferred 5 times over a month and came through with flying colours. Your new additions may have brought the ICH/black ICH into the tank. As it has a 7 day cycle you will see spots for 3-4 days then they will disappear for around a week then return. All the more reason for using a QT for new additions. Good luck.

 

[MQ-9]

Is the water surface of the display nice and rippled? I would not expect the skimmer to provide needed oxygen. Aeration should increase pH as it gets CO2 out of water. Disease really complicates everything horribly.