New To Reefing

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
Chemistry: Amateur Questions On Water Parameters (dosing)
Can I ask you stupid questions about water parameters in reef Aquaria?

What I want to achieve is acceptable params so all my corals can thrive, get fat and happy and everything .. including happy and healthy fish. Basically I want to do the right thing for my tank.

With that, I believe currently I have water params issue.

From Randy's table below, so far what I've tested are:
  • Salinity kept at 1.025.
  • Temperature kept at 25 celcius ~ 77 fahrenheit.
  • Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate (> 100 ppm) => NoPox program is currently underway.
  • Phosphate (0.25 ppm) => NoPox program is currently underway.
aoi66.tinypic.com_25g6nx5.jpg


I want to target the 4 remainder critical params:
  • Calcium
  • Alkalinity
  • pH (7.4)
  • Magnesium
Are these 4 params are inter-related and need to be rectified at the same time? which mean dosing at the same time.

As I understand from few readings, pH is affected by Alk ... so in a way, by controlling Alk, we are controlling pH.

If so, does that mean, there are really only 3 params to be fixed, which in turn will fix the pH on its own if all 3 params are at adequate level?

Am I confusing you? sorry !

I yet to know what my Ca, Alk & Mg are; am planning to take my water for fully testing at LFS this weekend.

I just want to understand in advance if these params are depleted, what do I do first?
 
Sep 24, 2013
367
280
Palm Beach
I wouldn't call it a stupid question :)

Are these 4 params are inter-related and need to be rectified at the same time? which mean dosing at the same time.
They are related, but they SHOULDN'T be dosed at the same time. Dosing Ca and Alk, from Randy's can precipitate Ca, so it is recommended to dose them separately.
As a rule of thumb, everything should be dosed separately, to avoid spikes and undesired reactions.

As you noticed, Alk supplement raises pH, so it is recommended to dose at night, when pH is lower and distribute it in multiple doses, to avoid spikes. Therefore, Ca is commonly dose during day time.

Ca and Alk are consumed at equivalent rates by calcification(20 ppm Ca for 1 meq/L Alk). Randy's recipe is diluted in such a way, that you should dose same amounts of Alk and Ca supplements daily.

For reference, here is my dosing schedule:
ac2.staticflickr.com_2_1553_23556180674_f93967cb78_z.jpg

As I understand from few readings, pH is affected by Alk ... so in a way, by controlling Alk, we are controlling pH.

If so, does that mean, there are really only 3 params to be fixed, which in turn will fix the pH on its own if all 3 params are at adequate level?
That is about right. Alkalinity is a buffer to acidification, therefore with stable alkalinity, pH becomes more stable.
However, Ca and Mg have no effect on pH buffering.

I just want to understand in advance if these params are depleted, what do I do first?
You bring each parameter to the desired level, with the respective supplement from Rand'ys.
You can use a reef dosing calculator to determine the amount necessary to bring it to the desired level.
After it is done, you have to test twice between a period(4-7) days to determine the daily consumption and then setup the dosing pumps.
 

Lesley

Member
Apr 2, 2013
2,086
1,079
I wouldn't call it a stupid question :)



They are related, but they SHOULDN'T be dosed at the same time. Dosing Ca and Alk, from Randy's can precipitate Ca, so it is recommended to dose them separately.
As a rule of thumb, everything should be dosed separately, to avoid spikes and undesired reactions.

As you noticed, Alk supplement raises pH, so it is recommended to dose at night, when pH is lower and distribute it in multiple doses, to avoid spikes. Therefore, Ca is commonly dose during day time.

Ca and Alk are consumed at equivalent rates by calcification(20 ppm Ca for 1 meq/L Alk). Randy's recipe is diluted in such a way, that you should dose same amounts of Alk and Ca supplements daily.

For reference, here is my dosing schedule:
View attachment 52693

That is about right. Alkalinity is a buffer to acidification, therefore with stable alkalinity, pH becomes more stable.
However, Ca and Mg have no effect on pH buffering.



You bring each parameter to the desired level, with the respective supplement from Rand'ys.
You can use a reef dosing calculator to determine the amount necessary to bring it to the desired level.
After it is done, you have to test twice between a period(4-7) days to determine the daily consumption and then setup the dosing pumps.

HI, I agree almost 100% with what you have said, although my tank does not use equal parts of any of the big 3 :( Just want to make @potatocouch aware that each tank is very different and its best to not think same for all.
Testing is your best friend. My need on each often change month to month and although I dose randy's it often changes. so TEST
 

Sam Parker

Moderator
May 6, 2013
4,802
2,397
Geelong
First thing is first, nitrate is bit of a worry if greater than 100ppm. NoPox is decent stuff, but you'd want to address the cause before trying to blanket with remedies.

Next up, forget PH - it's not worth anything in comparison to the others.

Lastly, grab some test results for alk, cal and mag over a few weeks so we can see where things are at before worrying about dosing.
 

potatocouch

Member
Jan 16, 2014
1,124
153
Sydney
First thing is first, nitrate is bit of a worry if greater than 100ppm. NoPox is decent stuff, but you'd want to address the cause before trying to blanket with remedies.
The problem is I honestly don't know where the root cause of Nitrate :(

Tested my RODI WC (measures at 0 tds and 0 nitrate), so we can eliminate water quality for being the culprit.

I have no HoB filter or any other filter (apart from the sponge in Eheim Compact return pump), which is cleaned last week but Nitrate was still high (i think this was before NoPox dosing).

I have oversized skimmer which is cleaned regularly.

I have no idea :(


Next up, forget PH - it's not worth anything in comparison to the others.
Thanks @Sam Parker ... will put that parameter to bottom of the list to look at.

Lastly, grab some test results for alk, cal and mag over a few weeks so we can see where things are at before worrying about dosing.
I intend to bring my water to LFS this Saturday to test for all parameters; we'll see what the results are and will report back here.
 
Sep 24, 2013
367
280
Palm Beach
HI, I agree almost 100% with what you have said, although my tank does not use equal parts of any of the big 3 :( Just want to make @potatocouch aware that each tank is very different and its best to not think same for all.
Testing is your best friend. My need on each often change month to month and although I dose randy's it often changes. so TEST
Indeed it can happen, but should be the exception. Randy talks about that here:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/