Tank Journal Archive

[Jacques Pels]

Hi,
posted something last week, on my dosing disaster, but there has been a deafening silence.
Would appreciate any inputs.
Seems I was dosing Ca and Alk for 7 weeks, using the RedSea test kit. It showed me Ca at 350~360, whereas in reality my water was already at 430...!!
Bought a new Salifert kit, and found the problem, BUT my Ca was at 510.
My pH has stayed between 8,23 in the mornings to 8,30 by evening.
I have tried adding a 10 Ltr bucket of tank water with 15ml, then 25 ml white vinegar to reduce the Ph and start to remove the Calcium.
I have done 3 water changes of about 10% each time. but bottom line the Ca is still at 500.
Is prolonged exposure to such high Calcium a problem for the corals ?
How to I best go about getting the Ca back to the 420/430 level ?
The fish are happy. Most corals looks happy, except 2 of my Acans - one lost color over 2 days, ad the 4th day is was jelly. The other one, I lost 2 polyps, but seems ok now.
Any inputs, advice or suggestions most welcome.

Jac

 

[NiCd]

What is your alk at? you can have elevated levels provided your ratios are right.

 

[megsez]

Hi Jac,

Sorry to hear about the problem. Wish i could give more advice on the issue but unfortunately i have not had this happen to me as yet.

But if i was in your shoes i would be doing exactly what you are. The only thing i would do if it was me is to increase the amount of water changes to 25% at a time. Not sure if you use NSW or synthetic but it may not be that easy for you depending on what uou have on hand. I now keep 1000L of NSW so would be streight foward.

In theory replaceing your water with other water that has lower CAL amounts should di loot the levels in your tank.

On your other comment about defining silence i agree lol i have come back after a few years break from Marine and it is a lot less action then their used to be. In saying that i dont think it is just on here from what i have seen on other forums. Lets hope it picks up.

Good luck let me know how it go's amd sorry i could not help more

 

[Sam Parker]

hi Jac, having had a dosing pump fail recently I can only say what I did. Water changes and lots of them.

Also consider if dosing is needed on your tank just yet, water changes alone will be enough to replenish elements until they really take off

 

[Jacques Pels]

Thanks Megsez and Sam,
I only started dosing Ca and Alk, because when I tested with the RedSea kit, it showed Ca at 350. Tested the new water I was getting at the seawall, and it also showed 350.
I dosed for about 7 weeks, and gradually got the readings to Ca 400 and Alk 8,60.
It seemed to plateau there, and I just got suspicious, so bought new Salifert kits for Ca, dKH and Mg.
I thought there was something wrong with them when initial test readings were off the chart - Ca after a full 1ml reagent, was still not turning blue, and had to add 14 ml more to get the color change !! so a reading of about 510 !!
Needless to say, checked and found they were correct, and the old RedSea was way off !!$#$%^
Tests on my IBC water show Ca at 430, so I never needed to even dose !
I stopped both Ca and Alk 2 weeks ago.
Even after the 2 recent water changes, the Ca is still at the 500 mark. Alk is now around 7,60 when I tested last week.
pH stays at 8,23 in the morning, and climbs to 8,28 by evening after lights all day.
After much discusion, we thought we eed to lower the pH to start to lower the Ca.
Made up 10 ltr sump water wth initially 10 ml white vinegar and dripped into the sump slowly over 3 hours. No result.
Then another batch of 10 Ltrs water with 25 ml vinegar, which had a pH of 4,36, dripped over 2 hours - no noticable result on lowering pH. Possibly due to the concentration, since I have about 3800 ltrs in the system, tank, sump and pipes.
Not sure if this road is worth continuing, or just do several big water changes. ?
I have 3 IBC's of water on hand, so about 2800 Ltrs.
Issue is :
- outside temps of the IBC water is 17 degrees, so a big change will shock the fish and corals.
- the new water tests at 430 Ca, so the dilution will be minimal on tank water with 500.
- a big, say 50% , water change will leave some corals dry and I am concerned with the stress of tht and the sudden change in water temp and parameters.

Is there any Calcium "remover" or neutralizer out there ?

Happily the fish look happy and most corals, although I was surprised to loose our first Crocea clam suddenly, and one Acro started to loose color and then turn to jelly within 3 days. Not sure if it is related. ?

Sam, on a related issue - I gave up expecting the guy in the USA to send the replacement of the Litermeter, so I have ordered a new one from Spectrapure directly. 1 main unit and 1 slave pump. When I get it, I will be able to do continuous daily water changes, say 50 ~ 100 a day ?

I am wide open to suggestions...

Jac

 

[Jacques Pels]

What is your alk at? you can have elevated levels provided your ratios are right.

NiCd, just tested alk again - at 7.30

 

[Sam Parker]

I wouldn't change anything too drastic, especially if all coral and fish are looking fine. Maybe up the frequency of your water changes is all

 

[megsez]

I wouldn't change anything too drastic, especially if all coral and fish are looking fine. Maybe up the frequency of your water changes is all

+1

You will also get insane coralline algae growth

 

[Franklin Dattein]

+1 to go slowly.
High Calcium is usually not an issue and will come down naturally, until it reaches ionic balance with Alkalinity.
The only side effect is a the potential calcium build up in pumps and other heated equipment. Also, it can buildup on glass at the water surface line and it is best if you scrape it quickly before it stains it.

If it was an Alk spike, the side effects would be less forgiving...

 

[Jacques Pels]

Thanks guys.
Did a +/- 500 ltr water change yesterday..so about 15 %. Ca test yesterday evening - 470
Also started dosing a bit of Alk on Friday , as it was down to 7,3. The pH is still at 8,24 mornings, and 8.28 by evening. This is in the right direction, so plan to leave things stable for say 2 weeks, and monitor.
My Dino algae problem also seems to be reducing, probably due to the 10 Trocus snails I added 2 weeks ago :-)

 

[Sam Parker]

Be careful dosing alk too - 7.3 is totally fine

 

[Jacques Pels]

Sam,
was advised to start some Alk dosing again, to get it up towards the 8 again.... but to be frank, I will take your advice and just leave the system alone for a bit.
Jac

 

[ezza]

I used to have real trouble getting accurate calc and mag readings on test kits. I have read extensively and discovered that calc and mag can interfere with each other’s results. I always used salifert kits for Calc/mag/alk, but I switched the Calc test to Aquaforest and have enjoyed very accurate readings since. It would take me a little searching to locate the source that told me about this issue. I’m needing a rest atm, but will try to find it later.

The other thing that saved my tank is learning everything there is to know about Ionic Balance. For years I have had really high Mag levels (high as in 1700-2000) which are impossible to manually reduce. Once I got my head around the Ionic Balance ratios I stopped killing coral and finally reached that magical place where coralline algae and SPS grow, even with insanely high levels. They end up bringing each other down as they are consumed.

The chart I use for Ionic Balance is no longer online, it was linked to on the forum once in the past. I printed the balance tables out so I can check my levels 2-3 times a week. The AquaCalculator App helps me work out the quantities of additives after testing.

This is the alternate calculator. I find it a bit more fussy because i’ve been doing it my way for so long, but it works just fine.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

 

[Jacques Pels]

I used to have real trouble getting accurate calc and mag readings on test kits. I have read extensively and discovered that calc and mag can interfere with each other’s results. I always used salifert kits for Calc/mag/alk, but I switched the Calc test to Aquaforest and have enjoyed very accurate readings since. It would take me a little searching to locate the source that told me about this issue. I’m needing a rest atm, but will try to find it later.

The other thing that saved my tank is learning everything there is to know about Ionic Balance. For years I have had really high Mag levels (high as in 1700-2000) which are impossible to manually reduce. Once I got my head around the Ionic Balance ratios I stopped killing coral and finally reached that magical place where coralline algae and SPS grow, even with insanely high levels. They end up bringing each other down as they are consumed.

The chart I use for Ionic Balance is no longer online, it was linked to on the forum once in the past. I printed the balance tables out so I can check my levels 2-3 times a week. The AquaCalculator App helps me work out the quantities of additives after testing.

This is the alternate calculator. I find it a bit more fussy because i’ve been doing it my way for so long, but it works just fine.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Ezza,
thanks for the inputs. After my recent adventure with false readings while I was dosing Cal and Alk, I stopped both, did a few water changes, and have the Cal back to 465. What I have noticed is my pH has climbed. Used to be a steady 8.12 mornings to 8.16 evenings. It is now 8.26 mornings and 8.31 by evening.
My Alk is down to 7.30
Mag at 1360
I was going to start to dose just Alk, but was concerned to raise the pH even more, so I have held back.
In the meantime, my softies and LPS - Leather, Sinularia, Hammers, Favia, Acro all look ok, with the exception that I suddenly lost our pink Goni - from 3 or 4 small polyps going brown, to next morning 20. Took it out to dip, and the 'brown" polyps just melted into jelly. Dipped it, and was hoping I had saved at least half, but by the next day the whole piece as brown jelly !! Then 2 days later the same thing with my Acro.
Since then nothing ..so am hoping it is not something that can/will spread.
In the meantime, we have our first SPS - Brds nest, Stylo, Pacillapora, a nice Yellow Chalice and a red one, Batavia "Yeti" - all showing good extension and color.
Got a beautiful 24 Karate Gold Torch, which has settled in well and is extending.

To be honest, I have never heard about Ionic Balance, but it seems every time you think you are getting up to speed in this hobby, you find out there is more you need to learn !!
I will try to read up on it, and be able to make an informed comment soon.

Many thanks
Jac

 

[ezza]

Ezza,
thanks for the inputs. After my recent adventure with false readings while I was dosing Cal and Alk, I stopped both, did a few water changes, and have the Cal back to 465. What I have noticed is my pH has climbed. Used to be a steady 8.12 mornings to 8.16 evenings. It is now 8.26 mornings and 8.31 by evening.
My Alk is down to 7.30
Mag at 1360
I was going to start to dose just Alk, but was concerned to raise the pH even more, so I have held back.
In the meantime, my softies and LPS - Leather, Sinularia, Hammers, Favia, Acro all look ok, with the exception that I suddenly lost our pink Goni - from 3 or 4 small polyps going brown, to next morning 20. Took it out to dip, and the 'brown" polyps just melted into jelly. Dipped it, and was hoping I had saved at least half, but by the next day the whole piece as brown jelly !! Then 2 days later the same thing with my Acro.
Since then nothing ..so am hoping it is not something that can/will spread.
In the meantime, we have our first SPS - Brds nest, Stylo, Pacillapora, a nice Yellow Chalice and a red one, Batavia "Yeti" - all showing good extension and color.
Got a beautiful 24 Karate Gold Torch, which has settled in well and is extending.

To be honest, I have never heard about Ionic Balance, but it seems every time you think you are getting up to speed in this hobby, you find out there is more you need to learn !!
I will try to read up on it, and be able to make an informed comment soon.

Many thanks
Jac

I’m really sorry I never came back to add more, i’ve Been sick this week and have been sleeping a lot. There are some threads on the forum about Ionic Balance. It is the ONE thing that I “worry” about now. The majority of corals will survive if the Ionic Balance is well... balanced!! I know exactly what you mean about thinking you are across everything and then finding out that you know nothing. Ultimately, all the primary skeleton building elements need each other to collectively support the zooxanthellae and grow as a colony. Pancakes are made from flour, egg and milk- if you put too much or too little of one ingredient, your pancakes might come out like rubber or could be too runny and won’t set. It’s kind of the same thing in principle. This page is pretty easy to understand.

https://reefnation.com/ionic-balance-matters-reef-aquarium/

 

[Jacques Pels]

Ezza,

I took some time to follow the links you kindly sent. Very interesting.
Your first link : http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html
was easy enough and helpful.
The second one gave a simple overview, but when I tried to download the template for more info, I was diverted to a site which asked for permission to use my data, so I declined.

What is said on Ionic balance, makes perfect sense - just like everything else in nature, it comes down to balance, proportion.
I am a great believer in trying to achieve our goals using natural, rather than artificial/chemical, means.
Intrude as little as possible, and let nature finds its balance.
We both know the cubes of water we love so much, are partly nature at its best, BUT the environment is not, so we have to be prepared to 'step in', but do so as unobtrusively a possible.
Applying this concept, I am wondering how best to proceed from the set up and parameters i have today.
For example, my initial fiasco when I started to dose for the first time ( Ca and Alk - Randy's) I was monitoring daily, but... was using a RedSea test kit given to me, which turned out to be giving me false readings. !! The beautiful new salt I was collecting at high tides at the sea wall, showed as only 360 ppm, hence I even started to dose Ca to get it up to 400~440.
After it seemed to plateau after about 6 weeks of dosing, at ca. 400 ppm, I got suspicious, and went out and bought new Salifert test kits for Ca, Alk (dKH) and Mag.
I nearly fell off my chair when the readings showed my Ca at 510 ppm and Alk at 9.7 !!
Stopped all dosing, and did 3 water changes over 10 days, each time about 15 ~ 17%. given my tank / sump volume is 3800 Liter, that was a lot of water.
My pH had been a pretty constant 8.13, but has climbed to 8.26 in the mornings, and 8.32 by evenings.

My present Ca is 465, Alk at 7.3 and pH at +/- 8.30, and salinity at a constant 1.026
When I did start to dose just Alk 2 weeks ago, I noticed an immediate jump in the pH, from the previous 8.13 to the 8.30 mark, so after 2 days I stopped further Alk dosing since.
The pH has remained stable at 8.26~8.32
I have not even attempted to dose Mg, as mine is 1360, and I did not want another variable. :-)
When I inputted my specs into the first link Calculator, it confirmed I need to be cautious in adding more Randy's Alk, as it will increase the pH.
Given all the above, I am wondering what the best way forward is, or to just leave the system in peace for a while, and see if it balances itself out first, before intruding further ??

Hope you are feeling better, and certainly dont want to burden you with this if you need your rest, but would be interested in your views.

Thanks
Jac