Reef Discussion

[potatocouch]

I'm now at that stage, where I think I would want to start experimenting (but at the safe level of course). no vodka for now!

I don't feel my LPS has grown, even with feeding so I have a feeling that the other traces may have not been at that adequate level.

These past years, my only care level are on the following:

1. Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate.
   
2. Temperature
3. Salinity

Now that I have implemented SPS (Acropora) into the tank, I would like to start dosing (manually) other elements that not only benefit the SPS, but also the LPS at the same time.

So that be their skeletal growth or their color vibrant.

What I had research to be important elements other than the 3 above are:

1. Calcium
2. Alkalinity
   
3. Magnesium

From what I read, before increasing Calcium trace, it is important to increase Magnesium first. Would that be correct?

If I am to start doing dosing the above 3 (Ca, Alk & Mg):

• Can I do one at the time (i.e. do Mg first, then worry about Ca & Alk later) or do they need to be done together?
• Which product (brand) would you suggest for me to purchase?
• Which product (brand) for me to test those 3 traces in a more accurate fashion?

 

[Lesley]

HI,
You are correct with the fact that getting your MAG on target first is important, correct MAG levels will help level out the other two, there is a definite correlation between the 3 .
So once your mag is on target you can then work on your cal & alk

Some people use a two part product which does cal & alk at the same time, but I found my tank used different amounts of each so I chose to use individual products for alk and cal.

I stared out using the Red Sea Foundations A, B & C.1kg powders and dosed manually.

Easy to use product, clear instructions but unfortunately with the increase in corals and demand for dosing (and our size tank) it just became far to expensive.
So after spending a fortune and lots of research I started using the Randy's Recipe but I was glad I started out with an easy product first.

I found the easiest way to dose was to test all 3 parameters on a Sunday for instance.
Do not dose or water change for 7 days, then test again.
Use those results to work out how much alk, cal & mag your tank is using (depletion) in that week.

Example lets say cal has gone down 20ppm - you work out how much supplement you will need to increase your tank by 20ppm, divide by 7 and dose that divided number every day for the next week.. rather dose everyday than once or twice a week, it stops large swings and keeps your tank a little more stable.

Best to dose alk in the morning and cal in the evening or visa versa but not at same time.

As far as testing goes, i love the Salifert test kits, easy to use, good color change and very good value for money.
Hope this helps.

Although I am sure there is more experienced people than me around, i just found it really really confusing when I first started so I had to make dosing simple for myself, there may well be a better way of doing it.

 

[slin1977]

Salifert test kits - cheap easy to use and accurate.
Seachem products for individual adjustment to basic parameters as mentioned.
Continuum products for advanced dosing such as potassium .

Coral growth depends on light spectral quality and photoperiod .

Your corals are growing if your alkalinity and calcium levels are depleting.
A daily log book is required to work out the rate of depletion of the above.

 

[Ziggy]

I was in a similar boat a month or two back. My tank uses loads of alkalinity and not as much calcium so dosing with a blanked product for me didn't work. I read through the thread here http://thereefuge.com/threads/randys-recipe-maintaining-calcium-alkalinity-and-magnesium.376/ on Randy's recipe (read the thread a tonne of times lol) and have finally got manual dosing off to a fine art now and my levels remain pretty spot on.
Its a learning curve, always is of course, but a wonderful lesson to learn.

 

[daveH]

I'm a firm believer and user of Randy's Recipe. In fact I've just finished mixing up a shipload at the moment.
I've used it for over 2 years now and have been successfully keeping my Alc, Calc & Mag right on target.
It's super cheap to make and is an extremely constant quality product.
I dose all 3 twice per day at around 2 hour intervals between each product.

 

[potatocouch]

As a beginner in dosing, I assume you guys would recommend me buying off-the-shelf products, rather than making my own Randy's recipe?

It would be safer that way, I would think? no?

Is there any such thing as over-dosing? over Ca, over Mg & over Alk? Any ill-effect if they're over?

 

[daveH]

Save yourself some money and start with Randy's. Just start dosing on the low side and increase as necessary.
You would have to do the same with commercial products anyway.

 

[daveH]

I'm happy to send you a simplified set of mixing instructions and quantities for Randy's if you want.

 

[Lesley]

As a beginner in dosing, I assume you guys would recommend me buying off-the-shelf products, rather than making my own Randy's recipe?

It would be safer that way, I would think? no?

Is there any such thing as over-dosing? over Ca, over Mg & over Alk? Any ill-effect if they're over?

I used the shelf product until I was confident enough for randy's. But it's a personal choice.
And yes there is " overdosing ".that can occur, that's why I liked the commercial products first because there was clear dosing instruction. EG.
don't increase your cal by more than 10ppm in any given 24hrs.
There was something in writing that I could actually understand.
I might just be stupid but that's what I did anyways.

 

[potatocouch]

@Lesley I'll go with the off-shelf for now. What is the difference between liquid reef foundation and powder reef foundation? They're both Red Sea.

When dosing, what negative things am expecting to rise? Perhaps Nitrate or Nitrite? Should I expect Algae to grow i.e Phosphate up?

In my CADE tank, i have Purigen mounted nearby the skimmer in the sump. Not sure if there will be any effect with Purigen in picture.

If I understand the logical process correctly:
1. Do WC as per normal.
2. Check traces Ca, Alk & Mg.
3. Let it run for 1 week. No dose & no WC.
4. Check traces Ca, Alk & Mg.
5. On 7th day (before WC) Calculate depletion rate and divide by 7 days if i am to dose daily.
6. Then do WC as per normal. By the end of this step, traces would have been replenished by the WC to the original level as per step 2?
7. Then start dosing the daily amount on a daily basis?

The only problem I can see when incorporating this new process is with my fresh water top up. I don't measure them in volume, but I just top it up accordingly, ensuring the salinity well on balanced at 1.025. So the fresh water top up may throw the dosing rate a bit. I meant to say the daily dose won't be dead accurate.


@daveH i'll get the recipe once am confident with what am doing. Just a once off thing, A, B, C and test kits.

 

[Franklin Dattein]

Freshwater won't affect Ca/Mg/Alk dosing, at all.

Other things to keep in mind:
- Avoid raising Alkalinity more than 0.5dKh per day. SPS don't like Alkalinity swings.
- Do several small doses, rather single large one.
- If your pH is in the low side at night, dosing alkalinity also at night, will help stabilise pH.

 

[Lesley]

Only difference between powder & liquid is price. Powder was a lot more cost effective for us. But liquids are clearly easier to dose. Yes. Test , 7 days calculate what's used and divide by 7. Dosing daily is best to avoid swings. When I started dosing I tested every 3 days just to see if I was on track. Did this 3 day testing for about a month. Good luck. Let us know how it goes !

 

[Lesley]

I didn't & wouldn't expect any problems along the way. Just follow instruction and all good. Just remember you do have a wide range of each parameter that can be kept safely. Eg. Alk 6-12dkh. Most have lots of wiggle room incase of minor errors !