Tank Journal Archive

[Jacques Pels]

Hi,
I have a few issues I would appreciate advice on.
BROWN JELLY - about 3 months ago I lost a small red Goni and then an Acan to Brown Jelly. It went pretty fast. First saw a single polyp change to brown. By evening it was Jelly. By lunchtime the next day the whole Acan was brown, and when I gently tried to lift it, it literally dissolved into jelly. A week later I noticed 2 polyps of the Goni go brown, so I immediately removed it, and soaked it in Revive for 15 minutes. Then washed it off with new salt water, and placed in the Q tank. After 2 hours most polyps opened, so I was hopeful. By the next day, it had spread to about half the colony. Rinsed again in Revive. Alas by the ext afternoon the entire colony was jelly !!
No problems since then, but hen last week I noticed my Duncan, located deep ( approx. 1100mm in the drop off, had a few polyps not opening fully. This Duncan had been very happy there for 3 months, so I was surprised.
I removed it and dipped in Revive, and placed in the Q tank. Next morning, 3 polyps were starting to be covered i a light brown jelly,so I sucked it off, and did another dip.
Next day the 3 polyps were jelly, so I tried to play it safe, and cut them off completely, and dipped again.
The rest of the colony seem nearly as happy as before, although not full extension.
This morning, there are 2 polyps not opening, and a hint of light brown jelly.
Looks like it is infectious, by the way it is spreading.
Clearly the Revive dips are not the answer. Any advice ??

ALK - I stopped all Ca and Alk dosing about 2 months ago, as my Ca was high a 500. My pH was at 8.23 ~ 8.30
My Alk has dropped to 6.1, so last week, I made up a new batch of Randy's Bi Carb, but this time I did NOT bake it, as my pH is already high.
I started dosing at 200ml a day, but after 3 days no effect.
Increased to 250ml/day. After 3 days still at 6.1
I increased this morning to 350ml.
Is it just a question of increasing daily, until I note a measurable increase ?

Cotton fin ? - I have been encouraged by the success with the Purple Tang, Lineatus Fairy Wrass etc despite the White Spot. A 6 week period in the system Q tank, a lot of feeding with Amino and garlic additives, and build up their condition, seems to have helped them get their 2 bouts of WS, fight it off, and when introduced to the DT, they bloomed.
I still want to stick to a disciplined rate of introducing new fish. I got a few of my favorites 2 weeks ago. A pair of Red Eye Fairy Wrasse ( I know them as Ct Throat Wrasse or Chin-strap W) a pair of Lubbock Fairy Wrasse an a pair of Scarletfin Fairy Wrasse. One of the Lubbock died. All are eating well, great color, and I was very pleased with progress. On Sunday I noticed a small white mark on the pectoral fin of one of the Red Eye Wrasse. By yesterday it had increased, to look like a small patch of cotton on his fin. He still eats and moved well, so it does not seem to bother him. I called the LFS and asked, and he thought it may be ( forgot the Latin name he mentioned) but like a Cauliflower viral infection. When I asked how to treat it, he said best to leave it, ad let it run its course, for2 to3 weeks, and as long as they are well fed, it should go away and not spread.
I tried to get some clear shots to show you, but they never stand still enough to get a clear shot.
I plan to keep them in the system Q tank for another 3 or4 weeks anyway, but was wondering if I need to move them to the full isolation Q tank, lest this spread to the main tank.
Would anyone have an idea what it is, or could be and I can research it ? Any suggested treatment ?
Pls excuse the quality of the images.

Thanks in advance
Jac

 

[Sam Parker]

Hi Jac,

sorry to hear about the brown jelly experience. It is one of those things that we don't completely understand the cause or remedy of yet (some will suggest they do, but I'm not convinced yet).

What we believe so far is that it is a bacterial infection that seems to originate from stress to the coral. That stress can be from irregular parameters, fish nipping at them or coral warfare.

Sadly, once it is present in your aquarium, it can spread very easily to other corals, especially LPS corals quite quickly. Dipping in my experience has not worked, the only way to defeat it is to throw away any infected coral heads as soon as ANY sign of brown jelly disease is present. That may mean throwing an entire coral, or if you're lucky - just cutting off the infected head. Switch off all flow in the tank, siphon off as much jelly/infected flesh as you can then very carefully remove the infected coral. If any jelly detaches, do your best to siphon it all out.

I couldn't comment on the fish disease I am afraid.

Sam

 

[Jacques Pels]

Hi Jac,

sorry to hear about the brown jelly experience. It is one of those things that we don't completely understand the cause or remedy of yet (some will suggest they do, but I'm not convinced yet).

What we believe so far is that it is a bacterial infection that seems to originate from stress to the coral. That stress can be from irregular parameters, fish nipping at them or coral warfare.

Sadly, once it is present in your aquarium, it can spread very easily to other corals, especially LPS corals quite quickly. Dipping in my experience has not worked, the only way to defeat it is to throw away any infected coral heads as soon as ANY sign of brown jelly disease is present. That may mean throwing an entire coral, or if you're lucky - just cutting off the infected head. Switch off all flow in the tank, siphon off as much jelly/infected flesh as you can then very carefully remove the infected coral. If any jelly detaches, do your best to siphon it all out.

I couldn't comment on the fish disease I am afraid.

Sam

Sam,
thanks for the feedback.
I resorted to just about that yesterday with the Duncan. removed all already dead polyps, and then also another 5 polyps that looked sick, just to be safe. Dipped it all again in Revive, but as you say, it does not seem to be effective. The remaining polyps have reopened this morning, but only partially. The other piece of Duncan, where I immediately cut off the jelly polyp last week Saturday, looks fine now - full extension and no spread to other polyps.
I will monitor both over the ext days.
I have been reading upon the Brown Jelly, and there are all sorts of theories and possible remedies... so bottom line, it is still a bit of a mystery.
On the bright side, the " Cotton Fin" had vanished off the Red Eye Wrasse this morning. No signs of damage or scaring on his pec fin... so hope for the best....

This morning I tested Alk again, and it was up to 7.6, so finally it seems to be moving up a bit. I did not bake this batch of BiCarb, but my pH has gone up a bit - now 8.27 in the morning, and 8.35 by evening.
Dont want to be chasing the numbers, but wondering if this is still OK ?
I have noticed my Yeti ( Batavia) has not had the characteristic long polyp extension the last 2 days - wondering if this could be related to the increase in Alk ??

Jac

 

[Sam Parker]

parameters sound find. Lack of polyp extension on the yeti is most likely from a fish annoying it.

 

[Jacques Pels]

parameters sound find. Lack of polyp extension on the yeti is most likely from a fish annoying it.

Sam,
dont see any fish nipping at him, nor is it located near a potential stinger. I will monitor. Have a pair of small yellow Coral Gobies, but they hang out on the Chalis mostly.

I have been pretty happy with my parameters the last 6~8 weeks, only the Alk going down to 6.7 bothered me, so I started dosing again.
I dont even test Na and PO4 daily any more - once a week now as it is a constant big fat 0 - I was even wondering if I in fact "need" to allow Na to get to say 0.5, or PO4 to say 0.05 ?
I have not even started adding any trace elements, as I am using the LiterMeter set up to do the 35 Ltr/day water changes.
I sent off my water samples to ATI Germany this morning, so hopefully I will get the results by next week, and have a deeper insight into my water chemistry.
Keep you posted
Jac

 

[Sam Parker]

a little nitrate and phosphate is good, but I wouldn't chase it in such a new tank.

 

[Jacques Pels]

Hi,
bad news. The Duncan where I had cut off so many polyps, started to look like it was healing, but... yesterday I found a new polyp that had Jellied over. Sucked it off, but this morning, it was back, just a darker brown, and the polyps around it were only half extended. From what I have seen to date, this is a sign that the virus is still there, and active. I may just take the drastic step to cut off the 2 remaining polyps that look half way healthy, and trash the rest, in the hope of stopping it.
Strangely enough, the other Duncan, with only 1 polyp that had jelly, but that I immediately removed, dipped and cut off the jellied polyp, has healed well...all polyps are fully extended for the last week, and I am thinking about returning it to the DT by end of this week.
The 3 new corals i got on Saturday ( 1 blue tip. one purple and one pink) all seem ok, with some noticeable extension, but the Yeti is still not extending much. ?
I have continued dosing Alk ( now 400ml a day) and my dKH is up to 7.7, so I am not sure if this rise in Alk has been too fast for the Yeti to take in stride ?
I will reduce the dosing to 350ml/day, so it continues to rise, but slower, so I can plateau out at say 8 to 8.4.
Jac

 

[Sam Parker]

that's brown jelly for you.... I find the best approach is the harsh approach and bin anything that looks remotely affected

 

[Jacques Pels]

Sam,
took an hours to carefully cut away the sick looking polyps, and ended up with just 3, from the 18 or 20 polyps the original colony had :-(
Checked first thing this morning, and saw the start of the light brown jelly on them, so ... I gave it my best shot, but made th call to trash them all.
Jac

 

[somethingfishy76]

I've never had Brown Jelly. No idea on treatment or prevention sorry.

 

[somethingfishy76]

Don't worry about your ph, 8.3 is great if you can get it. and hold it, Just aim for a good Alkalinity. I always cook my bicarb and as far as i'm aware its recommended...

 

[Jacques Pels]

Fishy,
thanks mate.
I have researched all over on the Brown Jelly, but bottom line, there is not a lot known about it, let alone a reliable cure.
I was with Frankline yesterday, and he thinks it is not viral, but rather a parasitic infestation, and the only cure may be to use antibiotics.
I have my plate full as it is, with all the variables in this game, so am not inclined to get into experimentation at this stage.
It was like accepting a defeat, but I had to trash the few remaining polyps, rather than risk it spreading.

From all I have read, the Randy's recipe call for baking the BiCarb for our Alk, is due to the fact that most refers seem to have an issue with LOW pH, so by baking it first, and then dosing, it raises their pH. In my case my pH has always been over 8 - before initial dosing it was a stable 8.12 ~ 8.18 evenings.
I was getting a bit concerned over the ast weeks, when i tested my Alk at 6.1 ~ 6.3, so made a new batch of Ranbdy's, but did NOT bake it this time. I have dosed just Alk now for 2 weeks, and it is up to 8.1 now, while my pH climbed correspondingly, but only slightly and is now 8.32 ~ 8.39 evenings.
I reduced the Alk dosage 2 days ago, to allow for a period of stability, as anywhere between 8 and 8.4 s fine for me, I think .
Coraline has taken off the last 6 week, and am getting coverage all over the virgin rocks, and even in my sump, where there is minimal lighting. I get the pink, but also a green type - thought it was algae, but when I scraped it, i noted it felt just like the pink Coraline. I assume it is a variety of Coraline ?
Ventured into my first SPS 8 weeks ago, just some Birds Nest and Stylo and a Batavia ( yeti) - all look pretty happy, except the Yeti who does not give the characteristic long polyp extension the last week.
Got 3 Acro earlier this week - probably pushing my luck, but have to try.
I will try using the new filter to make a short video of the tank.
Jac

 

[somethingfishy76]

Its normal to see a ph increase towards the evening so no issues there. Yes I like my ph higher so cooking is good for me. Its a waiting game and sometimes just a go slow and steady game. But as I did and many, many other have done, we all stuffed up, made mistakes and very few can say they didn't rush anything. So i'm the first to admit that I have lost more than I care to mention and wasted money on stuff because I wasn't patient. In the end you will get there and with your tank and its size you'll have some intricacies that no one else may ever have. So keep doing what you are doing, read, read and read some more. It'll come together in the end.

Make sure your lights are giving enough light (par) for those sps and good flow. Spread your fish purchases out a bit. I found once I started increasing time between getting new fish I stopped getting sick fish.

Your doing well mate, maybe not at the speed you want though. Have a good weekend.

 

[Jacques Pels]

Fishy,
been crook with the flu since Friday, so not much action other than I got to glue in a few pieces I had in the Q system tank. Will try to do a short video and upload.
Jac